SE Pro Super Tuner + Smart Tune Software

[Harley38]

Thanks Hoople. Appreciate it. Reading your posts you have really grabbed this HOG by the neck and helped me understand.

I really don't want to buy another tuner. If I work with what I have will it be o.k.?

With Smart Tune keeping the engine out of the red zone, will this be suitable for engine lasting along time?

My goal is to have a nice running bike with minimal issues that I can rack the miles on.

Thanks again for the help on this.

 

[Hoople]

If I work with what I have will it be o.k.?
My goal is to have a nice running bike with minimal issues that I can rack the miles on.

To really have it running nice, you need more than Smart Tune. (closed loop, narrow band 14.2 w/ E10 fuel)

Would you happen to have a CAT on your 2011? If so, I would address that 1st before you enrich the AF ratio of the engine.

 

[Harley38]

Thanks Hoople.

No, I took stock exhaust off and replaced with V&H Dresser Duals with Rush 2.0 slip-ons, SE A/C.

 

[Novicaine]

All Smart Tune will do is keep your engine out of the "red" zone as far as A/F ratio goes. Smart Tune can never give you the rich fat performance tune your looking for.

Can't you use smart tune to get your VE tables correct, then turn off smart tune, edit the Air Fuel Ratio table to be rich and fat (13.1 or whatever) in the cells you want to be rich at?

 

[Hoople]

Can't you use smart tune to get your VE tables correct, then turn off smart tune, edit the Air Fuel Ratio table to be rich and fat (13.1 or whatever) in the cells you want to be rich at?

That is a good question. Maybe you can, I never have tried it. But my guess would be No based on this reason.

VE tables values are not linear. For example: The VE of my engine at 2500 RPM is broken down into 13 throttle positions in %.
0%,, 2.3%,, 5%,, 7%,,10%,,15%,, 20%,, 25%,, 30%,, 40%,, 60%,, 80%,,100%

The corresponding VE is for each percent of opening is:

90,, 89.5,, 94.5,, 94,, 93.5,, 89,, 90,, 89,, 89,, 88,, 92,, 93,, 94

As you can see the VE actually goes down, then goes up, then goes down, then goes up... see what I mean. You can not predict what the next value will be based on the previous values.

So based on what you can calibrate during closed loop (Smart Tune),, this information will not help you to "predict" what the VE will be in the open loop cells. And now add to this the other 18 or so RPM values with their 13 throttle positions. (total of 200 or so cells)

But this is only how I read it. Maybe Smart Tune is smarter than I think.

 

[1Canuck]

Can't you use smart tune to get your VE tables correct, then turn off smart tune, edit the Air Fuel Ratio table to be rich and fat (13.1 or whatever) in the cells you want to be rich at?

actually this is correct. a smart tune flash sets most of the AFR to 14.6 to get a proper VE. It ignores whatever is set in the AFR for your tune fiel until you reflash without checking the 'smart tune box'. With corrections made to the VE you can then set the AFR cells to what you prefer and reflash.

 

[Hoople]

actually this is correct. a smart tune flash sets most of the AFR to 14.6 to get a proper VE. It ignores whatever is set in the AFR for your tune fiel until you reflash without checking the 'smart tune box'. With corrections made to the VE you can then set the AFR cells to what you prefer and reflash.

Very interesting discussion. Based on what you said, would the example below be a summary of what Smart Tune is trying to do and how it works. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am trying to understand Smart Tune also.

Lets say for example you were to stand outdoors one early cold winter morning and without the help of any instruments I was to ask what the temperature was (outside) to the nearest degree. My guess is you would say you have no clue. (your Smart Tune is turned OFF)

So I say to you "OK, I will give you something to compare it too". So I place you in a room that is EXACTLY 50F and tell you to calibrate you sense of temperature to this 50*F room. (your SmartTune is now turned ON). I then say to you "based on this 50*F room calibration that you do know for a fact is 50*F, lets go back outside and I now want you to tell me what the temperature is outside. I bet you still could not do it accurately even knowing what 50*F felt like.

Based on what your saying, isn't this what Smart Tune is trying to do? It is taking a NARROW BAND O2 sensor and calibrating itself to something it understands (14:1 to 14.6:1) and comparing it to something it does not understand (10:1 to 13.9:1) though the use of software. Software that has never been calibrated to anything other than a stoich ratio.

 

[1Canuck]

But this is only how I read it. Maybe Smart Tune is smarter than I think.

Very interesting discussion. Based on what you said, would the example below be a summary of what Smart Tune is trying to do and how it works. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am trying to understand Smart Tune also.

Lets say for example you were to stand outdoors one early cold winter morning and without the help of any instruments I was to ask what the temperature was (outside) to the nearest degree. My guess is you would say you have no clue. (your Smart Tune is turned OFF)

So I say to you "OK, I will give you something to compare it too". So I place you in a room that is EXACTLY 50F and tell you to calibrate you sense of temperature to this 50*F room. (your SmartTune is now turned ON). I then say to you "based on this 50*F room calibration that you do know for a fact is 50*F, lets go back outside and I now want you to tell me what the temperature is outside. I bet you still could not do it accurately even knowing what 50*F felt like.

Based on what your saying, isn't this what Smart Tune is trying to do? It is taking a NARROW BAND O2 sensor and calibrating itself to something it understands (14:1 to 14.6:1) and comparing it to something it does not understand (10:1 to 13.9:1) though the use of software. Software that has never been calibrated to anything other than a stoich ratio.

Hoople interesting reply. I actually look at the temp gauge on the bike to see what temp it is. LOL

I stand by my last post as I am using SEPST and doing exxactly what I said. the brief instructions that come with the software say so.
when you flash the VCI in smart tune mode it uses an AFR map almost all set at 14.6 in order for the O2 sensors to be able to read properly the air volumn passing through to give you the VE for front and back (after you flash the VCI, download the file from the VCI and look at the AFR table). once you update that several times with changes less than 5% you are good to set the AFR table in open loop. the O2 sensor does keep you out of the 'red' whereever AFR is left 14.6, or in my map as low as 14.3 as you put it, but runs open loop as per the tables set in open loop because it is outside the limits of the O2 sensors. Some people have said that as long as one cell is in closed loop, the sensors will feed back open loop as well. Perhaps that is why I get data in the open loop area without flashing with smartune.

I did ask a question in a previous post if anyone has figured out the 'reset adaptive fuel' you are told to check on every reflash and what it does, My guess is that within a certain limit (unknown) the ECM will still make adjustments to the VE and/or AFR to smooth out. this is just my opinion.

Perhaps we are using the same software with different maps, different year software as I have MAP instead of trottle position.

 

[2001lightning]

I installed an AEM air fuel ratio meter on my 06 ultra. It fit right in the air temp gauge spot. Had to weld a 18 mm bung in the right muffler. The kit came with a bosch wide band 02 . I only monitor the front cyl but I have the stock exhaust with cross over pipes. Bike works great . I know afr at all times .

 

[Hoople]

I stand by my last post as I am using SEPST and doing exxactly what I said. the brief instructions that come with the software say so.

Humm, interesting. I wonder how accurate the net result actually is. That's the key.
When you think about it, if it really was to work and was accurate, it would obsolete all wide band systems. (Revolution Performance,, Zippers,, and all ECM driven wide band systems). Wouldn't need them if calibrating using narrow band was possible.

To be continued...