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Cam questions... 01 fxdl

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Scruffman

Member
I was going to post this in the engine forum, but I can't sorry....

OK.. I opened up my cam cover today because there's a little noise coming from the bottom end. Upon looking inside I noticed that there is a wear pattern on the outside of both sides of of the cam? Now as a car person I know that this isn't good!
Now I purchased this bike used, didn't hear any noises, changed the oil to syn 3. So I guess my question is the old out was 50 weight and going to syn 3 could it have caused pushrod to have slipped over a hair?
Now replacing the cam? Should I go with gears instead of the chain?
And now that the cam has to be replaced what is the best cam and pushrods to put in..

Thank you for your time... And sorry for any confusion I may have caused reading this..
 
Where on both "outsides" of the cam(s) is the wear? On the inboard and outboard bearing ends, or on the lobes?
The pushrod ends (top & bottom) fit into sockets in the rocker arms and lifters, so there is no slipping over possible. The oil is not the cause. You have to measure crank run out, and have less than .005" to run gear drive. Check your cam chain tensioner shoes for wear. Cam choice is as varied as seat/oil/tire/handlebar choices. I like quick-e adjustable pushrods, so I do not have to remove rocker boxes when playing with cams.
 
It's on the lobes, and how do you measure the crank run out?
The tension shoes look good

There's just some noise coming from the housing
 
How many miles on this puppy? Check the archives for a video on cam run out procedures. The SE push rods are good to use, also the SE inner cam bearings. The bearings come as a set of 2 and are the Torrington type. I would change both Inner and Outer bearings. I had a SE203 cam in a 95" and like it real well. If you are still at 88" the 203 would probably be fine.
I believe that S&S says no more than .003" run out for gear drive set up. I assume you will do your work?
tourbox
 
I would need to see a picture of the cam lobes to make a call; could be normal wear pattern but could also be a lifter issue. It would help to know the mileage on the motor.

Early models do have a history of cam tensioner shoe premature wear and/or failure. IMHO, the process of how to proceed depends on what your goals are. If you are interested in performance upgrades that opens up a list of option limited only by your performance goals and/or the available funds.

On the other hand, if you are simply interested in resolving any issues in the cam chest you need to determine whether or not the wear pattern you are seeing requires a cam/lifter replacement or whether you just want to replace cams because you can. If the wear pattern is normal and you want to continue running those cams and depending on mileage, you might want to replace the lifters. In addition to that, at a minimum, the tensioners need to be replaced with a set of CYCO tensioners and the inner cam bearings should be upgraded to the a full compliment bearing like the SE units tourbox refers to in his post. I see no need to replace the outer cam bearings unless you remove the cams from the cam plate; just more work that is not necessary.

If you want to change cams and are considering gear driven cams, crank runout should be not greater than .003" although I have set up gear drive cams at .004" runout with no issues. Sometimes an under size pinion gear is required when runout exceeds .003". The S&S 509 cams are specifically designed for cam only upgrade to a TC88 and would boost performance without any other modifications. The SE adjustable pushrods (PN 18404-08) are good hardware and the kit has everything you need, pushrods, tubes, clips and O-rings.

The early cam plate is actually a robust piece of hardware and with new tensioners and bearings will run forever. The addition of the Baisley pressure relief valve spring helps low rpm oil pressure and would be a worthwhile upgrade for $12.

BTW, changing from a straight 50W oil to Syn 3 could very well be contributing to the noise you are hearing. Next oil change, skip the Syn 3 (not a true synthetic) and switch to a good 20W50 or 20W60.

Post a good picture or the cam lobes and the tensioners so we can take a look.;)
 
The milage is just over 19000 now, I should've taken a picture when I opened it up. Didn't think about it at that time. Not sure if I could've been able to get one anyway, as it was all I could do just to see the wear with a flash light.
 
Scruffman said:
The milage is just over 19000 now, I should've taken a picture when I opened it up. Didn't think about it at that time. Not sure if I could've been able to get one anyway, as it was all I could do just to see the wear with a flash light.
Click to expand...

It will be hard to help without pics. At a minimum, you need to replace the tensioners, particularly since you are hearing a noise that may be coming from the cam chest. You can take pictures when you get around to opening up the cam chest and I would suggest sooner rather than later.;)
 
How hard are the tebsiiners to change?
This is a project that I am most likely to be paying for! As I really don't want to mess it up!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Scruffman said:
How hard are the tebsiiners to change? This is a project that I am most likely to be paying for! As I really don't want to mess it up!
Click to expand...

Not hard at all, just takes some time, service manual, tools and patience. You have three options:
1. Replace the OEM tensioners with a set of CYCO tensioners
2. Upgrade the cam chest to the SE Hybrid cam plate, hydraulic tensioner setup for '07 up bikes, or as a variant to this option, replace the cam plate with an OEM '07 up cam plate which will require cam replacement with "conversion" cams.
3. Convert to gear drive cams.

There are several YouTube videos that show upgrading to hydraulic tensioners and installing gear drive cams and there are some good videos of replacing the OEM tensioners with a set of CYCO tensioners but those that I have found employ a special tool that allows the replacement of the inner tensioner without removing the cams from the cam plate, so that option would require the purchase of that tool. There are some videos out there that are done by idiots, like those put out by "elvisandmike"; the guy is an idiot and shouldn't be allowed near a tool box, so if you are looking around, be aware that there are some idiots with full display of their idiosity out there.

The job is not complicated and there are two basic ways to approach it; one required removal of fuel tank, rocker box covers and loosening up rocker arm support plate to remove pushrods from the top. The other approach saves time and labor by cutting the pushrods and pulling from the bottom but does require the purchase of a set of adjustable pushrods; that's a labor vs cost decision.

The job is not complicated and is often the first DIY project a Harley owner takes on. An experienced tech can complete the hobe in about 4 hours but a first time DIYer could take all day and part of the next depending on planning, do overs and Mr. Murphy showing up. Some special tools are required but there are "work arounds" for most of them. The OEM service manual is necessary as well; handiest tool in the box.

Whether you decide to DIY the project, on one level of another, will depend on your confidence, basic mechanical skills, tools and most of all, motivation to be the only guy that works on your bike. You can DIY the complete project, or pull the cam plate and take the cam plate and the new set of CYCO tensioner to a dealer or independent tech to R/R the cam shoes, etc. and you then install the cam plate and button up the cam plate.

The below links are to videos that are to provide some basic information, they are not instructional videos for the tensioner replacement.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=s&s+cam+chain+tensioner+video&qpvt=s&s+cam+chain+tensioner+video&view=detail&mid=02668CEE51BB4A2E2EC502668CEE51BB4A2E2EC5&FORM=VRDGAR

 
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