start with 1 cylinder, then the other
- Thread starter fabrozor
- Start date
fabrozor
Active Member
i put my hands on the exhaust pipes to feel the heat.
I hear the motor running on one cylinder and i feel the heat of the front cylinder.
When too hot i remove my hand.
Later ( +/- 10 seconds) i hear the both cylinder running.
Then i know the rear cylinder started to work properly.
I hear the motor running on one cylinder and i feel the heat of the front cylinder.
When too hot i remove my hand.
Later ( +/- 10 seconds) i hear the both cylinder running.
Then i know the rear cylinder started to work properly.
Hoople
Account Removed
It could be a lazy injector. The ECM could be sending the electrical pulse to the injector, but mechanically the injector could be sticking and not opening fast enough. Once it's gets going you may be OK till the next time it sits closed for a while. If you already have changed the spark plugs,, you may want to swap injectors (front to rear & rear to front) and see if problem shifts to the Front cylinder. If that is a lot of work, just replace the rear injector. They are not terribly expensive. (~$50 U.S.)
In my opinion, injector cleaner is a waste of money. Unless you remove the injector and clean it by hand, adding a cleaner to the tank has never worked for me and actually has made matters worse.
Back in April you posted a code of P1004 (system relay contacts closed). Are you still working with that code or have any more codes been added to the list? What do you show for error codes today.
If you are still dealing with the P1004, you may want to clear it and see if a new P1004 re-posts quickly. If the system relay contacts are sticking or the relay has "residual", it will post a P1004.
System Relays are cheap (~$10). It's really not worth going through all of work of testing them. Install a new one if you happen to re-post a P1004 quickly. A P1004 is not a code that will post while your riding. It logs when the ECM boots.
If it was my bike, I would just throw a system relay and rear injector into the bike and see where that takes me. You never can go wrong with having a set of fresh injectors in an engine. You want good atomization of the fuel.
In my opinion, injector cleaner is a waste of money. Unless you remove the injector and clean it by hand, adding a cleaner to the tank has never worked for me and actually has made matters worse.
Back in April you posted a code of P1004 (system relay contacts closed). Are you still working with that code or have any more codes been added to the list? What do you show for error codes today.
If you are still dealing with the P1004, you may want to clear it and see if a new P1004 re-posts quickly. If the system relay contacts are sticking or the relay has "residual", it will post a P1004.
System Relays are cheap (~$10). It's really not worth going through all of work of testing them. Install a new one if you happen to re-post a P1004 quickly. A P1004 is not a code that will post while your riding. It logs when the ECM boots.
If it was my bike, I would just throw a system relay and rear injector into the bike and see where that takes me. You never can go wrong with having a set of fresh injectors in an engine. You want good atomization of the fuel.
fabrozor
Active Member
thanks for your answer.
The P1004 doesn't shows anymore. I did nothing special. It just stopped to appear after several days of deletion. Strange behavior...
Do you think system relay would have a role in the "one cylinder start" problem ? or does it just concern the P1004 ?
The injectors swap would be a good test indeed.
I must try that.
I already did the injector cleaner product in the fuel tank, ... without succeeding in solving the problem.
Do you have a link to a tutorial telling how to handly clean the injectors ?
The P1004 doesn't shows anymore. I did nothing special. It just stopped to appear after several days of deletion. Strange behavior...
Do you think system relay would have a role in the "one cylinder start" problem ? or does it just concern the P1004 ?
The injectors swap would be a good test indeed.
I must try that.
I already did the injector cleaner product in the fuel tank, ... without succeeding in solving the problem.
Do you have a link to a tutorial telling how to handly clean the injectors ?
Hoople
Account Removed
The role of the system relay is to provide power to the ignition coil pack, the two injectors and the fuel pump. It allows the ECM to control all of those items using only 1 output port (drive line). The system relay does swing a fair amount of current. Remove it and at least inspect the base prongs for oxidation.
I doubt seriously if a problem with the system relay would be selective to only the rear cylinder.
It would be very helpful to know if your Delphi firmware (year 2005) is capable of logging a P1353 & P1356 (ION detecting combustion misfire). You would have to look that up in your year electrical diagnostic manual. That would allow us to mentally set aside a possible ignition or coil problem regarding you rear cylinder miss-fire. That is an important fork in the road right now that can lead you on the wrong course in diagnosing this problem. I just don't know with 100% confidence if your firmware supports ION sensing. Does the electrical plug going to the coil pack have 4 pins in it? If it does, it probably does have ION sensing. If it is 3 pins, you absolutely do not have Ion Sensing capabilities.
It is always nice to know what kind of foundation your sitting on before pointing a finger at a particular part for causing a problem. By that I mean having solid and equal compression in both cylinders is a Must. It gives you an indication of how mechanically sound an engine is to start with. Having equal and strong compression along with being able to log ION sensing codes would really point to the rear injector being the problem. If your year firmware did NOT support ION sensing and ION sensing codes, your problem could also be ignition.
Hand cleaning an injector, looking at it's spray pattern and measuring the flow rate can be done but requires a few special tools the average guy does not have in the home garage. If you had a V10 Viper it would be worth the trouble since you have 10 injectors. But in our case, having only 2 injectors, the cost and trouble for the tools out-weights the cost of the injectors.
I doubt seriously if a problem with the system relay would be selective to only the rear cylinder.
It would be very helpful to know if your Delphi firmware (year 2005) is capable of logging a P1353 & P1356 (ION detecting combustion misfire). You would have to look that up in your year electrical diagnostic manual. That would allow us to mentally set aside a possible ignition or coil problem regarding you rear cylinder miss-fire. That is an important fork in the road right now that can lead you on the wrong course in diagnosing this problem. I just don't know with 100% confidence if your firmware supports ION sensing. Does the electrical plug going to the coil pack have 4 pins in it? If it does, it probably does have ION sensing. If it is 3 pins, you absolutely do not have Ion Sensing capabilities.
It is always nice to know what kind of foundation your sitting on before pointing a finger at a particular part for causing a problem. By that I mean having solid and equal compression in both cylinders is a Must. It gives you an indication of how mechanically sound an engine is to start with. Having equal and strong compression along with being able to log ION sensing codes would really point to the rear injector being the problem. If your year firmware did NOT support ION sensing and ION sensing codes, your problem could also be ignition.
Hand cleaning an injector, looking at it's spray pattern and measuring the flow rate can be done but requires a few special tools the average guy does not have in the home garage. If you had a V10 Viper it would be worth the trouble since you have 10 injectors. But in our case, having only 2 injectors, the cost and trouble for the tools out-weights the cost of the injectors.
jaxdwg
Active Member
I'm still going to say it sounds like an intake leak where the manifold meets the head on the back cylinder. try squirting some ether (on the rear manifold just as the engine is started) to see if the rear fires with the front one, if so, fix the air leak. it seems that as soon as the engine starts to expand it seals and the engine runs on both cylinders
fabrozor
Active Member
Thank you Hoople, Kemo, Jaxdwg, for your answers.
@Hoople :
- It seems to have 4 pins.
- But the manual doesn't display the codes you said. Maybe i didn't look at the right page of the manual.
@Kemo :
- i don't have a compression tester.
- For the pushrods, i already made the setting 3 times because i was not shure to have it set properly. I think it ok for pushrods.
- i can switch the injectors
@jaxdwg :
- It is possible i did not reinstall the intake manifold properly.
- When i will disassemble the injectors for switching, i can disassemble de intake manifold too and reassemble it again.
@Hoople :
- It seems to have 4 pins.
- But the manual doesn't display the codes you said. Maybe i didn't look at the right page of the manual.
Code:
[U]Table 4-5. Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) and Fault Conditions[/U]
[B]PRIORITY
RANKING DTC NO. FAULT CONDITION SOLUTION[/B]
1 P0605 Flash memory error 4.19 DTC P0602, P0603, P0604, P0605, P0607
2 P0603 EEProm memory error 4.19 DTC P0602, P0603, P0604, P0605, P0607
3 P0602 Flash memory error 4.19 DTC P0602, P0603, P0604, P0605, P0607
4 P0604 RAM memory error 4.19 DTC P0602, P0603, P0604, P0605, P0607
5 P0607 A to D error 4.19 DTC P0602, P0603, P0604, P0605, P0607
6 “BUS Er” Serial data bus shorted low/open/high 4.10 STARTS, THEN STALLS
7 U1300 Serial data shorted low 4.10 STARTS, THEN STALLS
8 U1301 Serial data shorted high 4.10 STARTS, THEN STALLS
9 U1064 Lost TSM/TSSM communication 4.20 DTC U1064
10 U1097 Lost speedometer communication 4.21 DTC U1097
11 U1255 Missing response at TSSM 4.20 DTC U1064
12 U1255 Missing response at speedometer 4.21 DTC U1097
13 P1009 TSM/TSSM disabled fuel due to bad password 4.15 DTC P1009, P1010
14 P1010 TSM/TSSM disabled fuel due to no password (starts then stalls) 4.15 DTC P1009, P1010
15 P0371 Crankshaft position sensor shorted low 4.17 DTC P0371, P0372, P0374
16 P0372 Crankshaft position sensor shorted high 4.17 DTC P0371, P0372, P0374
17 P0374 Crankshaft position sensor not detected/cannot synchronize 4.17 DTC P0371, P0372, P0374
18 B1151 Sidecar BAS low Sidecar DTCs apply only to Touring models
equipped with sidecars. If these DTCs are present on non sidecar equipped motorcycles, the TSM/TSSM is not properly configured.
B1152 Sidecar BAS high
B1153 Sidecar BAS out of range
19 P0106 MAP sensor rate-of-change error 4.13 DTC P0106, P0107, P0108
20 P0107 MAP sensor failed open/low 4.13 DTC P0106, P0107, P0108
21 P0108 MAP sensor failed high 4.13 DTC P0106, P0107, P0108
22 P1351 Ignition coil driver front low/open 4.16 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
23 P1354 Ignition coil driver rear low/open 4.16 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
24 P1352 Ignition coil driver front high 4.16 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
25 P1355 Ignition coil driver rear high 4.16 DTC P1351, P1352, P1354, P1355
26 P0562 System voltage low 4.14 DTC P0562, P0563
27 P0563 System voltage high 4.14 DTC P0562, P0563
28 P0501 VSS failed low 4.18 DTC P0501, P0502
29 P0502 VSS failed high/open 4.18 DTC P0501, P0502@Kemo :
- i don't have a compression tester.
- For the pushrods, i already made the setting 3 times because i was not shure to have it set properly. I think it ok for pushrods.
- i can switch the injectors
@jaxdwg :
- It is possible i did not reinstall the intake manifold properly.
- When i will disassemble the injectors for switching, i can disassemble de intake manifold too and reassemble it again.
Hoople
Account Removed
Check for Intake leaks as Jaxdwg recommends. Swap the injectors and see what it buys you. Your winging it now since you can not check the compression or cylinder leak-down.
There is also another concern that really enters the picture and that is the Power Commander. The power commander is the final driver for the injectors. The ECM is still saying "when" but the power commander is saying "how much". I have never owned a Power Commander, but you may want to disable it until you get that cylinder firing again. If you swap injectors with NO change, the next thing I would do is disable the PC and get that out of the picture. A few months back there was a member who had a similar problem and it was a problem w/ the PC.
Knowing things like compression or % of cylinder leakage when the engine is cold eliminates lots of "could it be this?". Expect to take a few steps without seeing results because sometimes pulling answers out of thin air can be tricky.
There is also another concern that really enters the picture and that is the Power Commander. The power commander is the final driver for the injectors. The ECM is still saying "when" but the power commander is saying "how much". I have never owned a Power Commander, but you may want to disable it until you get that cylinder firing again. If you swap injectors with NO change, the next thing I would do is disable the PC and get that out of the picture. A few months back there was a member who had a similar problem and it was a problem w/ the PC.
Knowing things like compression or % of cylinder leakage when the engine is cold eliminates lots of "could it be this?". Expect to take a few steps without seeing results because sometimes pulling answers out of thin air can be tricky.