SE compensator

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

I got a few pictures from another forum of the new compensator @ 3k miles that was removed from a 2014 Limited Ultra for engine work.

The red markings are to show the area of minimal wear on the sprocket and cam. The forum member reported the thrust bearing and washers shows no wear.

 

[BUBBIE]

I got a few pictures from another forum of the new compensator @ 3k miles that was removed from a 2014 Limited Ultra for engine work.

The red markings are to show the area of minimal wear on the sprocket and cam. The forum member reported the thrust bearing and washers shows no wear.

That is good to see/hear.... Was there ANY mention of the Primary lube used?

Thanks if you would look back to see.

signed....BUBBIE

 

[FLTR2008TRIKE]

That is good to see/hear.... Was there ANY mention of the Primary lube used?

Thanks if you would look back to see.

signed....BUBBIE

No mention of which lube. This was a 2014 Ultra Limited so Im guessing it was HD primary chain case oil. Not Syn3

I also found a new pic of a recent install of the plastic channel funnel

 

[bobbeidel]

Here is a photo of the new 2014 outer primary cover. Shows the new fin or ridge the was added. Hope the photo got attached. Not sure how to do that.[/ATTACH]

 

[dolt]

I got a few pictures from another forum of the new compensator @ 3k miles that was removed from a 2014 Limited Ultra for engine work.

The red markings are to show the area of minimal wear on the sprocket and cam. The forum member reported the thrust bearing and washers shows no wear.

Maybe the MoCo got it sorted out but pictures at 25K miles would be more conclusive.

 

[Mechanic]

I have tried to write this to comply with the rules of the forum.

Hello all;
Been reading this thread and thought a class 101 in the SE Comp would be of help and answer a lot of the questions out there.

Now how is it that the MoCo went to this comp anyways? All of our older than 2007 bikes never had a comp issue. A component that worked very well for decades then in 2007 changed? Wider tires is why, the new primary configuration allowed for the wider tires. This required a different comp. So the MoCo extended the crank and if that were not bad enough they drilled a big hole in the center of it. Then they wondered why we were twisting and bending cranks. The original stock comp design from 2007 thru 2010 was far too weak for the job and that quickly was evident as we all know. So the SE comp was developed and introduced.

The design on the SE Comp in my opinion is a good one and can handle the job it is tasked to do. That is cushion the power strokes so the crank will not twist or bend so easily and smooth out the drive train.

Where they failed in their rush to get something to market was how to lubricate it. All the problems starts and ends with the lack of oil where it is needed. This has been proven time and again.

There have been several comments about how could any issues with the newest version be known so early on. You have seen the pictures of units after a number of miles. The biggest of the issues starting to show up is the spoke and cam wear. With the 08 & 08A that wear introduced a great deal of harsh debris into the primary and allowed the spring preload to quickly be reduced and it was all downhill from there. The sprocket bore was secondary to the spokes and cam but would also bring the assembly to a halt, just would take a little longer. There is a lot of technical data that has been developed on the 08 & 08A assemblies and how it was failing. Now take all that has been learned and what is being learned as we go forward with this newest version and there are serious concerns.

One issue is with the debris collecting in the orifices and crevices. I am seeing the results of that already with metal debris collecting around the inner circumference of the roller bearing. The question is how long and how much debris can the components, especially the rollers in the thrust bearing, take. Just how much debris can the rollers digest and will it clog things up and even stop the flow altogether, who knows at this point. This we will have to wait and see. The new version does provide what appears to be adequate oil flow to the sprocket bore and rollers but falls short on the cam, spokes and cam splines.

To stop the damaging wear to the spokes and cam requires a generous and constant supply of oil (imagine how long the differential in your vehicle would last with just a slight dribble of oil). You are not able to accomplish this through the center of the comp. The flow has to be captured and directed directly into the spokes and cam. This produces substantial splash by-product which also serves to lube the cam splines very well. It has been proven that this does stop the gualding and grinding down of the contact surfaces and instead polishes the surfaces. The new MoCo version has a limited oil supply through the retainer intake and most of what is taken into the retainer is released in the bore of the sprocket. The small amount of oil pressure generated with their design along with limited flow is lost to the open rollers of the thrust bearing. This, as I stated provides what seems to be an adequate supply for the sprocket bore and thrust but precious little is left for the spokes, cam and splines. So results thus far show far too little oil making it to the rear of the comp to cancel the wear on the spokes, cam, and splines. That is why we are starting to see the same wear as before. Just not as fast because of the wider cam ramps and the very slight trace of oil making it through the rear to the contact surfaces.

The MoCo had a great opportunity to get it right but in my opinion has again fallen short. In my opinion, it may get the bike out of warranty but exactly how far remains to be determined.

I wish it to be a home run, I really do, but the evidence in the design verses what has been proven to be required to make it very long term dependable are in conflict.


Keep the shinny side up.

Richard

 

[BUBBIE]

Richard,

Pretty much sums it up for now on the new compensator...

I have placed Grooves in the front of the spokes to Draw (using that centrifugal force that is there) a little oil into my "A" comp.

When into the Primary to add a SE clutch spring ,,, 14,000 miles on the new "A" comp..

Found No rust or wear that I could determine from just looking on the outer side and Not apart.

Grooves I put on can draw a drop or two of needed oil into the unit.... Not near enough to warrant comp lasting a long time though.

GOOD Post for your First... Hopefully you will do some helping out with Other Problems that arise with our members and New-bees...

Welcome

signed....BUBBIE

 

[Mongo1958]

Richard,

Pretty much sums it up for now on the new compensator...

I have placed Grooves in the front of the spokes to Draw (using that centrifugal force that is there) a little oil into my "A" comp.

When into the Primary to add a SE clutch spring ,,, 14,000 miles on the new "A" comp..

Found No rust or wear that I could determine from just looking on the outer side and Not apart.

Grooves I put on can draw a drop or two of needed oil into the unit.... Not near enough to warrant comp lasting a long time though.

GOOD Post for your First... Hopefully you will do some helping out with Other Problems that arise with our members and New-bees...

Welcome

signed....BUBBIE

Do you have a photo of the groves to share?

 

[BUBBIE]

Do you have a photo of the groves to share?

No, sorry . I did have one but it is gone.

Imagine looking at the forward side of the 3 spokes. Now 1 1/4 inch up on them start your groove downward (using small grinding wheel 1.8 thick) cut 1/8 deep Trench, Straight down to the boss...
(1/2" before bottom of spoke,,,,,or less start your Diagonal direction,,,THINKING to Draw oil into the trench and back into the boss)

Angle the trench toward the outer side of that boss and then Continue Diagonally down and across the face of the boss to the shaft splines...

Cut just a little INTO the bore of the splines(1/8 inch)

You can do this trench on BOTH sides of the 3 spoke making it look like a inverted slingshot, with both trenches goiing into the boss from the trench in the middle of the spokes.

Kinda like that...

I Only grooved the outside face BUT thiking about it, Both sides would be good to do.

The spoke trench is centered on the 3 spokes and at the bottom of the spoke where you start to go Diagonal BACK AROUND and across the face...

Close you eyes and Imagine the description I gave... I can follow it easily.:newsmile079:

signed....BUBBIE

 

[dolt]

I believe Richard is Richard K.?? From what little I know about Richard, he probalby knows as much or more about the various iterations of the SE compensator and the related issue than the gents that designed it.