I did not want to continue to hijack the other thread so I have started this one.
Originally posted by (Blindrage)
"American companies just cannot match the foreign labor.
In foreign markets the labor is cheaper, but that is not the biggest factor. All the extras like paid time off, unemployment payments, healthcare, etc. cost a decent company a large amount over what shows as your hourly wage or salary. Then add in costs to meet OSHA regs, inspection fees and fines, EPA regs, land costs, property taxes, and lots that I am leaving out.
I can only give good numbers for software developers, so here they are.
American Developer - total cost for a year runs in the 120k range for everything all totaled.
Indian Developer - total cost for a year runs about 50k.
I imagine it is worse with labor intensive jobs in dangerous job with environmentally unfriendly work, say experienced machinist for tight tolerance sports car engines. With all the costs associated with chemical hazards, physical hazards, injuries (back pain that goes on for years, crushed limbs, or just metal filings), Union headaches, and pension plans I am betting they end up with a total cost per overseas worker at less than 30% what they end up paying here. Along with being able to build anything and anywhere they want, work people hours slaves would balk at, and ignore the environment and citizen environmental protectors (Greenies) there is no incentive at all to bring work back."
I have to dissagree with some of this.
An American Tale. by Dr.Evil
American workers are not the problem. It is the greed of the management that is the problem. The company I work for went through bankruptcy and restructured. All of the new directors and upper managers received large sums of stock options as part of their compensation. Shortly after emerging from bankruptcy, our stock price went from $14.0 to $0.75. In order to raise the stock price they had to put cash back on the balance sheet, so they hired specific managers to come in and cut, slash, and burn everything. My department made 15 million net per year and was cut along with everything else. Our designer of 15 years was fired, and her work was sent to our India facility. No one asked if this was even a good idea, they just did it. Not only did a valuable, hard working, American loose her job, but our productivity in design was cut by 90%, for a 60% reduction in pay. You see, every time we take 12 months to train a new Indian, he then quits and takes another job for higher pay. This has happened twice now.
In the meantime the stock has been pushed back up to $12.0 a share. Now lets go and take a look at the insider trading of our stock. All the directors and high level managers are dumping their stock options for millions of dollars in bonuses, and for what? For doing a great job? No, for raping a good company and firing half its employees. That’s not management, its just stupid greed. Along the way they froze our pensions, for most of us at about 15%. They are closing my facility and merging it with an Ohio facility. My wife can not relocate so I am out of a job of 23 years. But not all is lost, if I stay until some undisclosed mystery date, I will get 5 months severance.
So what do we do as American workers? We are the ones that design and build the products while our leaders, use us up, throw us away, and take all the profits. Does this make us work harder? Do we even care any more?
History tells us that no great empire can stand for ever.
For an even better understanding of how greed will ultimately destroy us, go watch “Enron, The Smartest Men In The Room”
Originally posted by (Blindrage)
"American companies just cannot match the foreign labor.
In foreign markets the labor is cheaper, but that is not the biggest factor. All the extras like paid time off, unemployment payments, healthcare, etc. cost a decent company a large amount over what shows as your hourly wage or salary. Then add in costs to meet OSHA regs, inspection fees and fines, EPA regs, land costs, property taxes, and lots that I am leaving out.
I can only give good numbers for software developers, so here they are.
American Developer - total cost for a year runs in the 120k range for everything all totaled.
Indian Developer - total cost for a year runs about 50k.
I imagine it is worse with labor intensive jobs in dangerous job with environmentally unfriendly work, say experienced machinist for tight tolerance sports car engines. With all the costs associated with chemical hazards, physical hazards, injuries (back pain that goes on for years, crushed limbs, or just metal filings), Union headaches, and pension plans I am betting they end up with a total cost per overseas worker at less than 30% what they end up paying here. Along with being able to build anything and anywhere they want, work people hours slaves would balk at, and ignore the environment and citizen environmental protectors (Greenies) there is no incentive at all to bring work back."
I have to dissagree with some of this.
An American Tale. by Dr.Evil
American workers are not the problem. It is the greed of the management that is the problem. The company I work for went through bankruptcy and restructured. All of the new directors and upper managers received large sums of stock options as part of their compensation. Shortly after emerging from bankruptcy, our stock price went from $14.0 to $0.75. In order to raise the stock price they had to put cash back on the balance sheet, so they hired specific managers to come in and cut, slash, and burn everything. My department made 15 million net per year and was cut along with everything else. Our designer of 15 years was fired, and her work was sent to our India facility. No one asked if this was even a good idea, they just did it. Not only did a valuable, hard working, American loose her job, but our productivity in design was cut by 90%, for a 60% reduction in pay. You see, every time we take 12 months to train a new Indian, he then quits and takes another job for higher pay. This has happened twice now.
In the meantime the stock has been pushed back up to $12.0 a share. Now lets go and take a look at the insider trading of our stock. All the directors and high level managers are dumping their stock options for millions of dollars in bonuses, and for what? For doing a great job? No, for raping a good company and firing half its employees. That’s not management, its just stupid greed. Along the way they froze our pensions, for most of us at about 15%. They are closing my facility and merging it with an Ohio facility. My wife can not relocate so I am out of a job of 23 years. But not all is lost, if I stay until some undisclosed mystery date, I will get 5 months severance.
So what do we do as American workers? We are the ones that design and build the products while our leaders, use us up, throw us away, and take all the profits. Does this make us work harder? Do we even care any more?
History tells us that no great empire can stand for ever.
For an even better understanding of how greed will ultimately destroy us, go watch “Enron, The Smartest Men In The Room”
