08 1200 problems

Discussion in 'Sportster Models' started by 67hat34c, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. 67hat34c

    67hat34c Active Member

    297
    26
    0
    Been fighting this since March. Several prior posts with good responses but here is a quick recap and status.

    March 2010, running fine but had fuel pump module changed under warranty for low fuel light. Picked up bike and noted exhaust pipes gray inside instead of usual black. Ran fine but dealer said there is problem. Under warranty the took apart top end and ruled out damage. Said Stage One Download no longer is proper map so sold me super tuner. Ran poorly since, multiple re tunes, replaced injectors, crank sensor, map sensor etc.

    Sit at red light then proceed with light throttle roll and it will jerk and stumble but not all the time. Running slow 15 to 20 it is jerky and sometimes very jerky and missing. Hard acceleration off the line etc is strong and smooth, runs great all the time if running hard.

    Here is what I now believe is occurring. Engine is going into Heat Mode very early. I can hear the idle reduce when stopped which is the first stage in heat mode. Does this after lets say 5-10 seconds of sitting. Ambient temp 85 to 90. If I sit for more than lets say 30 to 70 seconds it will stumble when accelerate slowly. I believe it is going into further stages of heat mode and causing they symptoms. At slow speeds and idle the O2 sensors are activated and running in a lean mode, Also cylinder head heat sensor is monitoring heat.

    I believe that it is actually running hot or something is sending missinformation to the ecu. O2 sensors had same white/brown build up that the spark plugs had back in March. (mechanic did not pull them as I requested so I did last weekend) It was rather thick instead of a simple dusting. I cleaned them with brass bursh and used non Clorine Brake part cleaner to shoot through the vents, though doubt it did any good or harm. Sensors are relatively inexpensive so I ordered new ones so that I can rule them out. If this makes no difference then I will do the Heat Sensor.(both of these items on my dime, not telling dealer unless I fix it) If that is not issue then will give Orlando HD one more crack at tune then will get money back from tuner and they will swap out the ECU and I will give them the tuner back and will go to Doc Weaver and get the TTS tune done. Dealer did agree to refund if they cant get it right.

    Any thoughts on my analysis and plan?
     
  2. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

    7,198
    0
    34
    Based on your 3rd paragraph "sit at red light"... it sure sounds to me like a vacuum leak.

    1) White tail pipes. (Lean due to vacuum leak)
    2) Bog off idle (when vacuum is high, I would expect it to bog if leak is present)
    3) Does not happen when WOT or hard acceleration. (At WOT vacuum is normally low so it runs fine)
    4) lean miss/ jerky at cruise speed. (SURE sign of being lean)

    I take it you now own a SEST & Dongle. You now have a GREAT tool. Hook it up and view the engine data I/O field. Monitor front cylinder temp and see if you are going into heat management. I seriously doubt it. Duck tape the Dongle to your handle bars and do a VCI recording when bike is performing poorly and look at the MAP pressure recording at home with lap top.

    Have you searched and tested for a vacuum leak. Saying "the dealer did" means nothing. Did you do it and if you did, how was the test performed.
     
  3. 67hat34c

    67hat34c Active Member

    297
    26
    0
    Did not do vacuum yet.

    Now it does not do it all the time, Last thursday night went to bike night and it ran fine. Symptoms come and go. Will make a rig to test for vacuum and perform it.

    I have the Tuner but no software or cable. I also considered the same by recording it when it was acting up.

    As far as going into heat mode, I believe it is doing this as I can hear the idle speed step way down. I do not believe it stumbles when the idle is at a faster speed. With lack of Tach it makes it difficult. Best I can do is hook timing light the has a tach on it and tape it to handle bars, ugly but will work.

    What if the IAC is not right, would it mimick a vacuum leak?

    Sportster the heat sensor on rear cyl.
     
  4. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

    7,198
    0
    34
    Your kidding. I did not know that. I thought all the late model bikes had it in the front cylinder. That would actually require different threshold points in the software. I wonder why HD chose to make a big change like that? Interesting.

    Until I did a GOOD vacuum leak test, I would not rack my brains trying to explain it.
    You need to start with a known good foundation. That is a MUST. If I had the tools, I would also perform a cylinder leakdown & compression test just to make SURE the valves are fully closing. Remember, the dealership removed your cylinder head. Who knows what they REALLY did and HOW they did it. I would double check everything they removed by running some tests.

    I really admire your patience with a problem going on for 4 months. I would have been done with that dealer by the 2nd week. But I have never had patience with people fixing my things..
     
  5. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

    4,959
    83
    113
    A friend of mine had a similar problem on a 07 big TC. The money spent at time of purchase for Stage one and the Tuner + $$ for Dyno time was waisted... That bike Never ran good and always had a stumbling, and a overheat problem..
    Taking it to another shop that RE-programed the SE tuner did wonders. It was running too lean and Not set up to do the job... That tuner should be able to allow the bike to run smooth, cooler using the proper fuel mixture.

    The newly programed data on the 07 TC's SE tuner worked wonders and now it runs as it should of.....It was probably Improperly done at the dealer at time of purchase, as nothing was change after they tuned the bike..

    maybe Most of your problem lays with the dealers set up of the SE tuner..

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  6. 67hat34c

    67hat34c Active Member

    297
    26
    0
    Heat sensor in rear cyl. Wire runs right down the hole in the rocker cover.

    Doc will not use the Super Tuner , only the TTS. If I go that route then dealer will refund my money, take the tuner and swap out the ECU so they can resell the tuner I guess.

    Compresson is 210 each cyl, it pumps up strong on first and second stroke.
     
  7. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

    7,198
    0
    34
    I was looking at your SEST Stage1 tune file (176FM005) and it looks like there is no heat management on your ECM/File combination. On bikes that have it, it will show up under the "Tuning Setup" Tab. Nothing there for your combo. You may want to check w/ Hobbit because a few months back I believe there was a thread that supported this fact. (That Sporty did not have heat management)
     
  8. 67hat34c

    67hat34c Active Member

    297
    26
    0
    Blows that theory.

    HD says no Heat management on sportster. Only one it has is a complete shut down if it gets too hot.... blows a perfectly good theory.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2010
  9. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

    7,198
    0
    34
    Did you happen to ask them at what temperature that was. It would be a good piece of info to know.
     
  10. 67hat34c

    67hat34c Active Member

    297
    26
    0
    Did not ask, will next time I call. I got this info from a different HD dealer, Seminole HD.

    Hoople can you tell me how the IAC works, Does it shut off when engine is above idle? If proper operation is fully closed above idle then I would wonder if it is not working properly and letting air in above idle making it act like a vacuum leak.