Starting Issue When Hot.

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by Mongo1958, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Mongo1958

    Mongo1958 Junior Member

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    Hey gang,

    My 2009 96 CI Ultra Classic has starting issues (some times) when it’s hot.
    Symptoms: Sounds like gears grinding sometimes. Other times it takes a couple of attempts and seconds to start.

    I did a search and found a few people here that have the same issue but with no fix.
     
  2. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

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    On My 09 FLHR, it is close to a needed New battery, and maybe a New stock compensator... I won't go with the SE heavy duty compensator.. I'll replace mine with the stock comp.

    Too many SE comps Still having problems with fretting.(dry rust)

    Now today, very HOT day and I have noticed on a quick off and on-start,,,, I needed to talk briefly and shut bike off for a minute,,, starting it normal,,, it kicked back and made all the signs of worn comp-battery...:(

    It still can start just fine after fueling but noticed this for the first time today... Granted it is only once but usually it IS a sign of things going South...

    47,000 miles on it and Original battery.:bigsmiley15:

    Further inspecction says a New front tire Needed, VERY soon a new rear...

    I will put in new wheel bearings front and back when the tires are replaced...

    Front on the King (no ABS) takes 2 HD's New replacement bearings #9276"A"

    ("A" on part number probably means grease put in them this time) :newsmile100:

    The rear on my King takes three of the same bearings. One in the wheel and two in the belt drive pulley...

    Now IF you have ABS, the bearing on the left front and right rear takes a different bearing. HD's #9252 for ABS... the others are the same 9276"A"

    :(:bigsmiley15:Anyways that is what I thought. When it rains it POURS...

    So a new battery sounds simple.... THE REST is Rough:53::53::53:

    Hope Yours Only Needs New Spark Plugs:D

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  3. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Your not alone. The other day I stopped for fuel with a fully heat soaked engine. I have a SE comp that is clean of fret rust. I also have a 3 month old HD battery. All cables seem to be clean and tight. The other day it was hot and humid and the engine was fully heat soaked. I stopped for fuel and I knew re-starting was not going to be a pretty picture. This stock 96 is so tight once it is hot. I hit the starter and the engine turned about a half a revolution and stopped with the same sound of a dead battery. The starter did push through it but after about 1/2 of a revolution, the engine kicked back as if the timing was too advanced. That caused the starter pinion to kick out of the ring gear which resulted in the starter grinding. I then released my finger from the start button. Pushed it again and it started correctly.

    When cold the bike starts fine. Never a problem or hint of a problem when cold. Even when "just hot" it is never a problem either. But when fully heat soaked (right off the freeway, then a couple of traffic lights to the gas station), there is no telling what your in store for.

    I know the rings are sealing good. I have checked the compression with a Snap on tester and it is 195 PSI. I can hand crank the engine slowly and it holds compression like no other engine I have owned. It is like there's no ring gap on the rings. The piston ring seal is remarkable.
    Harley manuals claim that during cranking, spark advance is near zero degrees but I find that hard to believe because of the kickback. I use name brand 93 octane fuel. Only mod to the engine is a SEST / mapping w/ SE Slip on's & KM air filter. I have a cable pull throttle body and give it about 1/3 throttle during cranking.

    I don't know what to think of it. I sure don't like it. I plan to check the spark advance number during cranking. That could be the answer if there is too much advance during cranking. I really have no clue what I am looking for.
     
  4. Mongo1958

    Mongo1958 Junior Member

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    I did a little snooping and found this. Very helpful.

    http://www.hdtalking.com/transmission_clutch_and_primary_drive_train/16366-compensator_kit.html
    So far the strating thing has happened about 5 times
    I have a warranty on my bike, I wonder if the Dealer will honor it. How can I prove to them that it is the compensator causing the starting issues? Will a savvy tech know what I'm trying to say?

    I just got a new front tire, I need to install it. It would not hurt to replace the bearings if they are cheap.

     
  5. Mongo1958

    Mongo1958 Junior Member

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    Yup, sounds just like mine.
     
  6. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    You sound convinced it is the compensator. Gears grinding=bad compensator. ??
    How do you figure that. If you let off start button for even a nano second, it will grind pinion gear.
    Bad comp gives you the "lockup bang" where it will bottom out when springs flatten. I have a SE comp with gears grinding. No comp bang,, now it just stalls out starter. Whats mileage on your bike. No much detail in your description of what takes place when it happens.

    I think the ignition timing needs to be zero or 1 degree after TDC for this to stop.
     
  7. Mongo1958

    Mongo1958 Junior Member

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    Well, I'm still trying to sort it all out. I was also aking about a battery in another thread (I wonder what's the best battery for a HD?).
    31,000 miles on my 09 Ultra.
    When the bike is HOT some times the engin will not crank. It sounds like gears grinding. When it does try to start it will hesitate as if the battery is weak. When it is at ambient temp it will crank right up.

     
  8. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

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    A way I over came a starting Problem on my dyna, Need to try it on This 09 bike....

    Put bike in Gear and ROCK the bike back Before you start ,,, Pulling the pistons/crank Back into a spot of FREE wheeling at first.... Giving the Strter a Head Start on kicking over...

    Worked great on my Dyna and High Comp. sport...:D

    Hmmmmm TRY IT, I'm going to...

    My bike when Not too Hot like IN 99 to 112,,, starts with a Big BANG like Hoople says. Man people JUMP and look as I smile and shrug to them...

    Their thinking, it must be a HUGE motor:D

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  9. 1Canuck

    1Canuck Banned

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    from experience. stock comp kicked back on hot starts. Changed to SE comp problem solved on kickback, still get occasional dead stop on start if one cyclinder finishing a compression stroke. anyway then the grinding started and had the starter clutch go rather fast, perhaps 20 more starts.
    IMO HD would not be going to the third SE Comp if the stock comp was not causing a suspected problem.
    I plan this winter to pull the primary and check for the fretting often discussed, but other than that the 08A comp is an improvement
     
  10. ironmark

    ironmark Junior Member

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    The problem is in the stock compensator! Replace the stock compensator with the SE compensator and all your starting problems will disappear. There is nothing wrong with your starter.