Stage 1 Download Questions

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Mr. Clean, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Mr. Clean

    Mr. Clean Member

    14
    11
    0
    These questions are regarding the Dealer installed Stage 1 Download.
    1. Exactly what information is downloaded to the ECM? I know that the download increases the rev limit to 6200 RPM from whatever the stock limit is, but what else? Is the air/fuel ratio adjusted back to 14.7 to compensate for the leaner mixture caused by SE air cleaner?

    2. I have read that many say don't waste your money. Others say it may be worthwhile if the only mods you do are slip-ons and the better flowing air cleaner. I would like to hear why the difference of opinions.

    3. I have also read that if your battery goes dead, you lose the download and have to have it installed again at whatever price the Dealer charges. If this is true, what happpens when you disconnect the battery to hook up some accessory, such as an air horn? Do you automatically lose the download just by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes?

    Here are my reasons for asking:

    I purchased my 2007 Road King Classic used from a Dealer. The previous owner had a Screamin Eagle Air Cleaner installed along with V&H slip-ons and a PC III. The slip-ons and the PC III had been removed and only the SE air cleaner with stock mufflers were on the bike when I bought it. I asked the dealer to check the ECM and they told me it was as it came from the factory, with no downloads. I was concerned that the bike was running too lean with the SE air cleaner and had the bike dynoed by an independent who confirmed that is was very lean - running at around 15.1 while on part throttle.

    To help the situation, I installed the Nightrider O2 IED's, but have not had it dynoed again. Supposedly they help bring the A/F ratio back to around 14.6-14.7 from 15.1. I recently installed the one piece Street Legal SE slip-ons and am wondering if I should remove the Nightrider O2 IED's and have the dealer download the Stage 1. I believe that might bring the A/F ratio back to 14.7.

    Then, if I reinstall the Nightrider O2 IED's my A/F ratio should enrichen to about 14.2.

    I am very pleased with how my bike is running, but am concerned about potential damage due to lean running. I have no intentions of doing any further performance mods besides the SE air cleaner and the slip-ons currently on the bike. I just want to get the A/F ratio a bit richer than 14.7.

    I know that a PC III or a V&H Fuel Pac or some other ECM modification might be better than just a Stage 1 download, but I do not want to spend a lot of $ and would like to keep the bike reasonably close to stock if possible.

    Any and all comments will be appreciated.
     
  2. glider

    glider Veteran Member

    25,464
    108
    43
    To answer your questions in the order they were posted.

    1. The download changes the parameters of the map in the ECM. It does not however give you a perfect fuel ratio like you mentioned, it will still be lean. I also raises the rev limit and some timing changes also. It over writes what is in there now in certain areas but does not replace the map that is present.

    2. I agree with don't waste your money on a download. Get a tuner of your choice and do it that way.

    3. "I have also read that if your battery goes dead, you lose the download"
    Not true at all. Once the ECM is flashed, it stays that way.

    4. The slip-ons and the PC III had been removed and only the SE air cleaner with stock mufflers were on the bike when I bought it.
    With this config, it would be running lean and shame on the dealer for selling the bike that way. Find another dealer.

    After you are done trying all your modifications and hoping to get your desired AFR with various parts , why not just install another PC III and do the job properly with a dyno tune and a custom map instead of guessing?


     
  3. Tigg

    Tigg Junior Member

    618
    28
    2
    Hey Glider
    I have a question about my download . What is the rev limiter set to on the Twincam B. I was told that it isn't as high as the unbalanced motor because of the counterbalancer but it sure seems to hit the rev limiter awful easy. Secondly can I get the shop to lower my idle on my EFI engine. Since my download the idle seems to be higher.If so what how low can I go to get more of that "Harley" idle and what adverse effects might this have on my motor.
    Thanks
    Jack
     
  4. glider

    glider Veteran Member

    25,464
    108
    43
    I believe it is 5600 on the rev limiter for the B engine.

    Also the lower Idle isn't recommended for a few reasons. One being the additional power required for the electric fuel pump and also the oil supply to the engine. By lowering it on the newer engines, you are getting marginal on both. Normal idle should be 1000 rpm's + or- 50 for best all around safety and performance. The potato sound is gone with the TC engines.
     
  5. Tigg

    Tigg Junior Member

    618
    28
    2
    Thanks Glider you da man :bigsmiley12: