Smart Security System causes non-start issue

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by RedHS, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. RedHS

    RedHS New Member

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    Has anyone had any intermittent starting problems with the Smart Security System that uses the hands free fob?

    I have had an intermittent starting issue with this ’09 Softail Deluxe since I bought it new in Sept of 2009. Originally I thought (and the dealer thought) it might be a switch problem in either the start or kill switch, but it was not.

    I have come to believe that somehow the Smart Security System may actually be causing this intermittent starting issue.
    The bike starts right up most of the time, but every once in a while, when I push the start button it does nothing, no engine turn over, no sound at all. Sometimes if I push the start button again, it will start right up, other times I have pushed the start button numerous times with no result. In those situations, I turn the IGN to off, and then re-do the start sequence, and she starts right up!

    I have also noticed that my bike does not always do those two “chirps” and blinking of the turn signals upon turning the ignition key to OFF, as described in the manual.

    So, has anyone had any intermittent starting problems with the Smart Security System that uses the hands free fob? My two year warranty is going to expire in September, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Oh, and I change the fob battery every spring. Plus, when I brought the bike in to the dealer on 8/1/11, he insisted the problem was the fob’s battery, so they put a new one in. While out on a ride on 8/5/11, the bike wouldn’t start again! I had to turn the IGN to off, and then re-do the start sequence, and she started right up!

    Thanks for any help you can offer!
     
  2. TripleJ

    TripleJ Senior Member

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    This is one of those issues I would demand the dealer fix prior to the warranty running out. Keep well documented all the times the dealer has tried and what they have actually done to fix the issue. Having everything documented my help if the issue comes back after the warranty runs out.

    You say "Originally I thought (and the dealer thought) it might be a switch problem in either the start or kill switch, but it was not." Exactly how did the dealer come to this conclusion?

    Also are you getting any DTC's from the bike?
     
  3. RedHS

    RedHS New Member

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    Each time I brought the bike in for the non-start problem, the dealer supposedly checked the “starting system, the start switch and the kill switch” and found nothing wrong!
    After they claimed to have checked those out, I asked if they had checked the Smart Security System, they claimed they checked for codes, but none were found, and that they put a new battery in the fob and the bike started. Well, I’ll bet it would have started if they turned the IGN switch to off and then restarted the bike, it would have started without the new battery because that’s exactly what I told them was happening to me.

    I have done a google search and have found numerous posts about this issue dating back to 2007, but no solutions to the problem. I can’t believe Harley and the dealers are unaware of this issue!
     
  4. TripleJ

    TripleJ Senior Member

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    Intermittent electrical issues can be the hardest to diagnose and fix. The fact that you are not showing any codes makes me think the problem is with the Ignition Switch or Kill Switch (or a bad connection). Seeing how recycling of the Ignition Switch seems to make it start again this would be my first guess where the problem is. Seems to be quite a few issues lately with the Ignition Switches going bad.

    Try NOT using your Kill Switch and leaving it in the Run position all the time and using ONLY the Ignition Switch along with the start button to run or kill the bike. Using this method if the problem occurs and cycling the Ignition Switch fixes the problem I would be pretty confident saying you have found the problem to be the Ignition Switch and/or Connections.

    If your dealer you are working with cannot verify and fix the problem I would suggest finding one that can while the warranty is still good.
     
  5. fxtoad

    fxtoad New Member

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    you would demand it gets fixed? If the dealer cannot duplicate the problem what are they suppose to fix? Ask your dealer to call tech services at HD headquarters maybe they have some info on it If the the bike starts every time for them they have no where to start looking. Electrical problems can be difficult and intermittent ones almost impossible to find unless it acts up when the dealer has the mc so demanding anything wouldn't help but working with them and trying to get the bike to them when it acts up might
     
  6. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    The first thing the Dealer should do is call The MOCO and get tech support on the line, chances are very good they have seen this before and have a fix already, let them keep the bike for a reasonable time to duplicate the problem and document it that way Warranty should cover you JMO:s
     
  7. TripleJ

    TripleJ Senior Member

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    Yes, demand they get it fixed is what I would do. Never said I would not work with them to achieve that goal. If the dealer could not duplicate the problem I would do as Jack states and "let them keep the bike for a reasonable time to duplicate the problem and document it that way Warranty should cover you". As you have also stated there is things the dealer can do such as call HD Tech for additional help if needed.

    After all NPF does not mean there is no problem, just that the dealer has not found it yet :s The evidently think there is a problem as they have already replaced parts they thought may have been the problem.

    The last thing I would want is for the warranty to run out before an issue like this was resolved.
     
  8. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    I know it's not easy to do when out on the road, but to get anywhere with this problem, you need to determine the logic state on Pin #9 of the TSSM when the bike is in failing mode. If the logic state of pin #9 is LOW, the problem is in the starter relay, starter solenoid, the starter itself or the wiring leading up to the starter. If the Logic level is High (12v), the problem is most likely the TSSM.

    What I would do is stuff a pigtail wire into the TSSM connector and dress it so that it can be reached easily. When the bike fails to start, don't touch anything or recycle anything. Just take out your meter and measure the voltage level of that wire.
     
  9. dbinbc

    dbinbc Active Member

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    Simply answering your question, YES, I've run in to that on both my old '07 and on my current '09. Just once in a while but it does happen. It can be with a new battery in the FOB, doesn't seem to make a difference. Sometimes it just takes longer for the security system and the FOB to talk to each other. And in every case, turning the bike off and back on seems to wake it up. I think the biggest factor is what is between the antenna under the seat somewhere and the FOB in a pocket with other stuff around it.
     
  10. DIRTYRALPH

    DIRTYRALPH Account Removed

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    I scored a deal on a 09 softail deluxe with 4200 mls for a cool 10G's. One problem....this security system is about to drive me insane. I can not start this thing without manually disarming the system EVERY TIME. Ive did much research for the problem and fix to no avail short of bending over and letting the dealer have his way with my open wallet. Ive tried 1.) new battery in the FOB 2.) no possability of RF interferience 3.) reset & checked my pin number by doing the key turn directionals, stand on your head,do the hokie pokie procedures.....all checks out. What am I looking at next the dealer either replacing the tssm and remarrying it or can I all together save myself the aggrivation and have then get rid of the alarm system by replacing the tssm with a tsm? can I down grade relatively cheap or can you even do it? the only one this security system keeping from starting the damn this is me!!