MoCo Builds vs Others

[dolt]

I am new to the site; only been here about two months. I have noticed that most of the conversation about performance builds is centered around the MoCo Stage I, II, III or IV packages. There seems to be an attraction to those builds rather than the "others" which are the builds that one would plan using different components to achieve a specific performance goal.

Most well built 95"ers will out perform most Stage whatever 103s and will run with 110s. Why the seeming attraction to the MoCo builds that underperform compared to the aftermarket builds?

This post is not intended to start (EDIT) but I am curious?

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[dolt]

i used the MoCo stuff as getting the GOOD stuff is crippling in the current climate and if i had the money i would without hesitation use S&S at $1 per HP its worth every penny as it actual makes more than they state once tuned and is reliable

That's part of the answer but I am more referring to say a 95" or 103" build where you buy a piston set, say SE cast flatops, send your cylinder out to be bored for piston fitment, select a cam, say the Andrews 54G and based on the cam profile, figure out chamber volume necessary to deliver the desired corrected compression and send your heads to a porter to port and deck to that volume, send the bottom end to Hoban Brothers if crank work is necessary, select a pipe that should work with that combination and put it together, tune it and go. Not an S&S or Headquarters package but one where the rider is the builder that plans and executes the build. These builds are usually cheaper than a package.

I have never priced a MoCo build but can they cost that much less?

 

[randyman]

My 2006 Road King was originally a dealer build. The build was the HTCC CNC Ported heads HTCC 95 inch pistons, adjustable pushrods, Screaming Eagle air cleaner, and dealer down load, it ran ok, but had real detonation problems and was not the best in smooth power department. Next I added a power commander and a dyno tune, it was better but still not good. Now I run the same heads reworked by Axtell, Jims compression releases, custom cut by Axtell to match heads JE forged pistons, Squish set at .035. Redshift 577 Cams, S & S gear drives, Fueling cam plate, Fueling oil Pump, Screaming Eagle tapered adjustable pushrods, Axtell VMO Lifters, Zippers air cleaner, Timken conversion lower end by Axtell, lower end O-ringed by Axtell, 50 MM screaming Eagle throttle body, D & D fatcat two into one exhaust, and Thundermax closed loop system. It runs AWESOME NOW and I would recomend Axtell to anybody, they assembled the engine for me and I trust them completely. I believe that Ron, Chaz and Terry at Axtell are the best at what they do and anybody considering any H-D performance work would be way ahead to deal with them.

 

[glider]

My 2006 Road King was originally a dealer build. The build was the HTCC CNC Ported heads HTCC 95 inch pistons, adjustable pushrods, Screaming Eagle air cleaner, and dealer down load, it ran ok, but had real detonation problems and was not the best in smooth power department. Next I added a power commander and a dyno tune, it was better but still not good. Now I run the same heads reworked by Axtell, Jims compression releases, custom cut by Axtell to match heads JE forged pistons, Squish set at .035. Redshift 577 Cams, S & S gear drives, Fueling cam plate, Fueling oil Pump, Screaming Eagle tapered adjustable pushrods, Axtell VMO Lifters, Zippers air cleaner, Timken conversion lower end by Axtell, lower end O-ringed by Axtell, 50 MM screaming Eagle throttle body, D & D fatcat two into one exhaust, and Thundermax closed loop system. It runs AWESOME NOW and I would recomend Axtell to anybody, they assembled the engine for me and I trust them completely. I believe that Ron, Chaz and Terry at Axtell are the best at what they do and anybody considering any H-D performance work would be way ahead to deal with them.

You posted this yesterday in another thread...

Not sure of the part number, but running the street legal 103, 255 cams and stock non catalyst exhaust. Runs good, but, pings when hot. Looking at TTS.

Maybe you could explain a bit better about the change overnight on your engine build so I can understand it a bit better?

Thanks

 

[dolt]

My 2006 Road King was originally a dealer build. The build was the HTCC CNC Ported heads HTCC 95 inch pistons, adjustable pushrods, Screaming Eagle air cleaner, and dealer down load, it ran ok, but had real detonation problems and was not the best in smooth power department. Next I added a power commander and a dyno tune, it was better but still not good. Now I run the same heads reworked by Axtell, Jims compression releases, custom cut by Axtell to match heads JE forged pistons, Squish set at .035. Redshift 577 Cams, S & S gear drives, Fueling cam plate, Fueling oil Pump, Screaming Eagle tapered adjustable pushrods, Axtell VMO Lifters, Zippers air cleaner, Timken conversion lower end by Axtell, lower end O-ringed by Axtell, 50 MM screaming Eagle throttle body, D & D fatcat two into one exhaust, and Thundermax closed loop system. It runs AWESOME NOW and I would recomend Axtell to anybody, they assembled the engine for me and I trust them completely. I believe that Ron, Chaz and Terry at Axtell are the best at what they do and anybody considering any H-D performance work would be way ahead to deal with them.

Now we're talking. I have an Axtell Mountain motor 107" kit for the top end of my '02 FLHT and the Hoban Brothers treatment on the bottom end; assembled by yours truly. This is at the heart of my question, why the tendency of forum members seems to be to rely on a dealer build as opposed to the aftermarket. I can sort of understand Hobbit's position considering the logistics of ordering parts through a US based disccount Harley dealer, like Zanotti's and the shippinng. What I don't understand is why so many rely on the dealer for lazy, underperforming builds, like yours, when the aftermarket offers so many other options.

 

[NEWHD74FAN]

Some of us are new to the HD community and do not know the plus and minus regarding HD builds vs others and rely on posters like you to help set us straight. There is also the convenience issue, HD and SE mods are developed and tested by a well funded R&D corporate developed and marketed structure, going against competiion recently spurred by rise in interest in light of the media mill...hence the well storied Jesse James and Tuttle family rise to fame.

Thanks for posting this insightful thread for those of us not informed in this area of bike engine customization. Most motor heads like me started in the automotive world and metric racing world...though V-Twin performance has long been around awhile, coming into a another renaissance cycle, but being countered by legislation and the EPA.

 

[randyman]

I have two bikes a 2006 Road King currently (Axtell build) 2009 Ultra Classic currently (dealer 103 build)

 

[DynaLowRider]

The go fast/faster thing is great for some of you younger guys but for some of us older bucks all we need is enough oomph to get out of the way of the cagers and people texting/yacking on cell phones. So the simple little upgrades that the local HD dealershop are enough.

 

[DynaLowRider]

I was thinking of my wifes 40 h/p 883 that we converted to a 1200.

 

[DynaLowRider]

Did it through the HD dealership with screamin eagle heads. She is a happy little girl now. We finished it up with a Mikuni 42mm carb. Runs good. I didnt find the 1250 kits until after we did the upgrade. Have always been curious.