Fuel system problem

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by 01 rk, Dec 17, 2015.

  1. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    Having a problem with my 2006 flhtci. When restarting the bike after a ride and the engine is hot there is a chirp coming from either the gas tank or under it, cannot tell which, when the ignition is turned on. When this happens the engine turns over but will not start. The fuel pump cycles, but no start. I looked in the tank but did not see gas moving or bubbles so I don't think there is a hole in the hose. If after several cycles the chirp occurs when turning off the ignition the bike will start when it is turned on. This is an intermittent problem, it does not happen all the time making it difficult to fix. There are no codes associated with the problem. I replaced the fuel pump last spring so the pump can be ruled out since the problem was occurring prior to the pump being replaced.
     
  2. Jeff Klarich

    Jeff Klarich Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Just a shot in the dark, have you done a fuel pressure test? also inspect the injector wires for cracks, wires have been known cause issues.
     
  3. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    Have not had a pressure test done yet mainly because if the problem is not occurring when the test is being done it probably won't show anything. Also have not messed with any wires.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Breeze3at

    Breeze3at Well-Known Member

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    This "chirp" only happens in the hot/no start occurrence? I ask because my '07 alarm "chirps" often, but not 100% of the times ignition is turned on/off.
    If the engine spins over at a good rate, the crank position sensor my be dirty or faulty, but that usually results in a code. Does your fuel pump stop priming after a few seconds (it should), or do you hear it continue to run (it should not)? Have you tried cracking the throttle open a little when it doesn't start?
     
  5. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    The chirp only happens when the engine is hot and I turn on the ignition after being shut off for maybe 15-20 minutes. There is no alarm on my bike. The fuel pump cycles for maybe 5 seconds and stops and will recycle after several attempts at starting. If after turning the ignition on and off several times the chirp occurs when turned off then the next time it is turned on the bike will start. Yes I have tried the throttle when starting, it does not start.
    What ever is causing the chirp seems to be stopping fuel from reaching the cylinders. I don't know if it is the injectors or maybe the pressure regulator or something else. Like I said I cannot tell where it comes from my hearing is not good.
     
  6. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    M-1185 1 of 2
    SERVICE BULLETIN
    M-1185 February 20, 2006
    FUEL INJECTOR/CALIBRATION CHANGES FOR 2006 1450cc
    BIG TWINS®
    Purpose
    It has recently been determined that the 8° angle cone spray fuel injectors used on 2006 1450cc Big Twins may cause cold start and/or driveability problems on some motorcycles. In the interest of promoting customer satisfaction, the 25° angle cone spray fuel injectors used on CVO 103 cu. in.(1690cc) motors will be installed on all production Big Twins beginning on or around February 13, 2006.

    Additionally, Harley-Davidson will provide for the installation of 25° angle cone spray fuel injectors on those motorcycles where use of the 8° fuel injectors (part number 27625-06) is determined to be directly responsible for cold start and/or driveability problems. See REQUIRED DEALER ACTION.

    NOTE
    Due to changes in the manufacturing process, the part number of the 25° angle cone spray fuel injector is changing from 27709-06 to 27709-06A. This fuel injector also will be stamped with the words 25 DEG for easy identification. See Figure 1.

    Motorcycles Affected
    Only 2006 1450cc Big Twin model motorcycles that exhibit cold start and/or driveability problems directly related to use of 8° angle cone spray fuel injectors (including those subsequently equipped with P&A Screamin' Eagle 1450cc or 1550cc Performance Kits).

    Required Dealer Action
    1. Adhere to the flow chart in Figure 2 when handling customer complaints regarding cold start and/or driveability problems on affected motorcycles.
    2. If the flow chart indicates that the fuel injectors are the source of the problem, check the part numbers stamped on the fuel injectors. While standing on the left side of the motorcycle, the part number on the rear fuel injector can be easily read with the aid of a flashlight.
    3. If required, remove both 8° angle cone spray fuel injectors following the procedure in the applicable 2006 Service Manual. Install 25° fuel injectors, either part number 27709-06 or 27709-06A.

    Figure 1. Fuel Injector Part Numbers
    f2447x8x
    Old Style 8°
    Fuel Injector
    New Style 25°
    Fuel Injector
    NOZZLE END
    IMPORTANT NOTE
    In the interest of preserving customer safety and satisfaction, always check for outstanding recalls whenever any motorcycle is brought into your dealership for either maintenance or service.
    ©2006 HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR COMPANY

    M-1185 2 of 2
    NOTE
    Always replace both 8° angle cone spray fuel injectors on affected motorcycles. Never mix 8° and 25° fuel injectors on the same motorcycle.

    NOTE
    If the part numbers on the fuel injectors are rubbed off or otherwise unreadable, count the number of orifices or holes in the injector nozzle. The 8°angle cone spray fuel injector has just three holes, while the 25° has six. See NOZZLE END in Figure 1.4. Update the ECM calibration. For those motorcycles
    equipped with P&A Screamin Eagle 1450cc or 1550cc Performance Kits, refer to h-dnet.com for the correct calibration P/N.

    Credit Procedure
    Complete a separate warranty claim for each vehicle serviced. Reference Service Bulletin M-1185 in the Comments or Notes section and be sure to include the VIN of the vehicle on which the service was performed. Fill in the rest of the claim as follows:
    Performance calibrations require pre-authorization from Technical Service to be considered for warranty coverage unless listed on the SWR. Upon receipt of the properly completed claim, you will receive
    the labor credit shown above. Figure 2. Cold Start/Driveability Flow Chart Correct condition or install
    compatible components. Are cold start or driveability problems still evident?
    Check the following:
    ● Fuel has the recommended octane rating and is not contaminated.
    ● IAC operation.
    ● Spark plug condition.
    ● Engine is configured correctly (with the appropriate air cleaner and exhaust).
    ● Vehicle configuration is supported by the correct calibration. Refer to Calibration Information on h-dnet.com.

    Does the vehicle pass inspection?
    YES NO
    Check fuel pressure. Is fuel pressure between 58-62 psi?
    YES NO
    Replace the 8° fuel injectors with 25° fuel injectors.
    Update ECM calibration.
    Check part numbers stamped on fuel injectors. Are 8° or 25° angle cone spray fuel injectors installed? 8° 25°
    Refer to SYMPTOMS DIAGNOSTIC in Digital Technician. Problem resolved.
    YES NO
    5388
    Applicable DT Code Refer to SYMPTOMS DIAGNOSTIC in Digital Technician. Applicable DT Code ENTRY FIELD ENTER Claim Type PRD, MC Problem Part No. 27625-06 Detail Part No. 27709-06 or 27709-06A
    Quantity of Detail Part No. 2 Description 25° Angle Cone Spray Fuel Injectors Labor Code 5388
    Time 1.10 Hours
    Customer Concern Code 9203
    Condition Code 5388 Have your injectors been replaced?
    _______________
     
  7. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    Thanks Jack, that work was done on my bike in 2006, so I think that can be ruled out as the problem.
    Also this only occurs when the engine is hot.
     
  8. Breeze3at

    Breeze3at Well-Known Member

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    I got nothin' helpful, but I'm still thinking about this. :rr
     
  9. Bodeen

    Bodeen Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Contributor

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    I'm still hung up in the carb era (and ok with it). Is the fuel pressure regulator on these things mechanical? If so, could it be the regulator making the chirp? Or even the mechanism that measures the pressure?
    As stated earlier, a fuel pressure test setup may be very handy to try and run this down.
     
  10. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    I don't know weather the pressure regulator is mechanical or not, I do know the pressure regulator holder is prone to failure. I also don't know what exactly the holder would have to do with the regulator failing, if that is the problem.
    I have priced a new regulator and holder and it's about $160 for both, I would like to be sure that is the problem as i don't have cash to burn.
    I agree a pressure test would help but, I think the problem would have to occur when the test was being performed for it to tell anything. The bike fires right up when cold and the problem does not happen all the time when hot only intermittently.