Cam, pinion gear, TDC-timing prob--HELP!

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by CatWoman, Sep 1, 2009.

  1. CatWoman

    CatWoman Active Member

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    I purchased my '89 FHLTCU this April, she came with a Screaming Eagle III which included an Andrews 27 cam. Well, to make a long story short, I am redoing both top and bottom ends but I have run into a possible problem. As I was taking things apart, I found several careless errors -- squashed gaskets, compression bolt torqued tighter than 600 ft lbs, screwdriver marks (only a few, but still!!) to pry the crankcase apart and silicone keeping it together-- just to name a few. To add to the mayhem, when I got to the camshaft--someone else removed it before I could mark it along with the pinion and breather gears.

    This leads to my problem: The pinion gear has it factory made slash mark and someone (I guess the yielder of the screwdriver mentioned prior) made a red mark on the gear about 120 degrees away from the slash. Now, when the front piston is at TDC, neither the slash or the red mark are in the 12 o'clock position to line up with the cam. From all my research, I want the slash mark and the appropriate mark to line up on the cam HOWEVER, is it really necessary that the pinion gear be in there just so? I did try to remove the nut infront of the pinion gear--but I am SURE the same person who tightened the compression bolt got to this nut --it is quite tighter than the torque specs of 170 ft lbs. All my reasoning says the pinion gear shouldn't matter as long as the breather gear and camshaft are lined up -- am I right?

    All help would be greatly appreciated!! I so want to get back on the road!:(

    THANK YOU
     
  2. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Careful, that nut may be right-hand threads!!

    Hmmm. Sorry to hear about your troubles. Not ALL folks should work on their own bike possibly including the previous owner of your bike.

    But nothing is unfixable, so ...

    I rebuild my Dyna ('91) back in '99, but did NOT split the case or pull the guts out of the tranny. Now the tranny is shot, so I guess I should have. However, I was in the nose cone and as I recall, there were timing marks on all three of those gears. Let me see if I can find some info about that. I am in Singapore just now and away from all my stuff, but will see what is here that might help.

    Attached is a section out of the HD Factory Service Manual for the '97-98 Softail, but an EVO is an EVO. If you look at page 3-44, it indicates that there should be timing marks on all three gears that "should be aligned or matched". The pix is on 3-45. That is what I remember from my bike.

    TQ
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009
  3. vtbikers

    vtbikers Active Member

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    There is probrobly a couple of small dots or dimples by two of the gear teeth on the cam gear. They may not line up at TDC and thats ok. They just need to line up. Breather to cam, pinion to cam.
     
  4. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    As VTBiker indicated above, I don't remember whether the engine was at TDC with all the timing marks aligned, but it does not matter. You will rotate the engine until the pinion gear mark is straight up, and then build everything off that (cam gear mark aligned, breather gear aligned to other mark on cam gear). That's it! Attached below is the same section I gave you earlier out of the '97-98 ST. This is from '91-92 ST. Same info!! Unfortunately, these pix are not much better than the other ones. But you can sort of make out the marks on the cam gear and the breather. The mark on the pinion gear is partially covered by the washer anyway!!

    TQ
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 3, 2009
  5. CatWoman

    CatWoman Active Member

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    Well, thank you TQ and VTbikers for helping me!!

    This is how it turned out. Today I was able to remove the pinion gear (right-hand threads!!), however due to the fact that I have already sealed the crankcase :small3d015:, I did not turn the shaft. Therefore, I guess I'm going to leave the pinion gear in the same place as it had been when I started this project. (Which I only did because I lost a bit of compression in the front cylinder and while redoing the top end opted to fix the crankcase oil leak - i.e. the timing appeared to be fine.) The current situation: When the front piston is at TDC, the dots (dimples) on the camshaft line up beautifully with the breather gear and the very top of the pinion gear which unfortunately has its mark between the 4 and 5 o'clock positions or about 135 degrees from where I would like it, at the top. The oddest thing, when I first opened thing up and observed the cam, it had a red mark drawn on it, but it did not line up with the cam at TDC, at least not TDC for the front piston. Now the red mark would be about in the 9:30 position. Not sure who put the red mark on the pinon gear and why, perhaps they don't know why either.

    I would like to have taken a picture to include, however, my picture taking equipment was not cooperating:( Had, I, they would have looked much like those that you sent, TQ, just with the, perhaps minor, difference as mentioned above.

    If you have any other advise or would like to reassure me in my going forward with putting all the pieces back together (the camshaft, pinion gear, etc. are still visible), starting her up and.... :dknow (not sure, but hope it all goes well), it would be GREATLY Appreciated!!

    Thanks for assisting me with my rather frustrating situation!!

    CatWoman
     
  6. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    CatWoman,

    Quick note: you have replaced the inner camshaft bearing with a new Torrington, right?

    Is your engine on the bench or back on the bike?

    Regardless, once your RTV has set, you can turn the engine over until the pinion gear timing mark points up. Assemble the camshaft and breather so their timing marks align (camshaft gear to the pinion, breather to the other mark on the camshaft gear). Make sure everything is out of the chest and button up the nose cone. You can now mount the lifter blocks, lifters, and install and adjust the pushrods assuming the pistons, jugs, heads and rockers are all on. If not, do all that, then install the pushrods and adjust.

    Should be getting close!!

    TQ
     
  7. CatWoman

    CatWoman Active Member

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    TQ - UR Terrific!!

    Ahhhh, not yet :small3d015:

    Still on the bench, can't wait to lift it back into the bike (she seem so empty without her heart, liver, etc.) :newsmile08:

    I guess this is the sticky point for me, HOW!! I am trying to do everything with the first cylinder at TDC, obviously this cannot be the case while turning the pinion gear timing mark up. What am I missing? Where am I going wrong? :wall This mole hill seems like a bit of a mountain, thanks for providing the climbing gear to get over it!! :worthy

    You might be right, 'close, but yet, so far away' - but I DO want to get it right!!

    CatWoman
     
  8. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    CatWoman,

    If you have the top end on the engine, pull the plugs and rotate the engine using the nut on the pinion shaft. Or you can probably just grab the drive sprocket side and turn it by hand. Again, you do NOT need to have either cylinder at TDC. Just rotate the engine until the pinion gear timing mark is at 12 o'clock. Then assemble in the cam shaft and then the breather lining up the marks. BUT, swap out that inner bearing before anything.

    TQ
     
  9. CatWoman

    CatWoman Active Member

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    Well, I finally got it through my thick head--I will line up all the pinion gear, cam shaft and breather gear--forgetting about TDC!!!!

    I can't wait to get back to work getting her together later today-hope things go well and we'll be on the road soon! I will keep you informed of my progress.

    Thanks again for all the help!!
    CatWoman
     
  10. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Atta-girl!!

    TQ