Harley Davidson Forums

MBHD93 · May 3rd, 2010, 02:01 PM

I did check the end play after the bearings were greased. Duhhhhhhhhhhh. So, I too think it will be OK. I want to thank everyone for their help.

schooner · Mar 22nd, 2011, 09:48 AM

Hey Chopper

I'm a first timer @ this & maybe the last time ~ going NUTS on how to understand this ENDPLAY deal.

Got new tires; new race has been pressed-in by M/C Shop. Got all new Timken Bearings,Seals & Shims. Got Magnetic Stand & Dial Indicator too.
Now if only I can understand how the heck can I check and correct ENDPLAY while my wheel are OFF my '85 Electra Glide Classic - Whew

Questions:

Lets say I want to check for ENDPLAY by putting my wheels back on the bike without grease (at least I know that much so far) Got everything in the hub against the pressed race i.e. Metal spacer which Plastic spacer is wrap around;
next is: shimes (4) were taken out and (4) new ones in. Stepped spacer is the first one in back of bearing YES/NO ?

O.K. I tighten it all up according to specs .002 - .006
Now where do I place my magnetic stand ? on the brake disc YES/NO ?
If its YES - then I place my dial indicator point WHERE ?

So that's where I am now till you tell me and show HOW-2-.

I came across this picture but DON'T know how it works completely YET.

What's happening on the other side of the wheel/axle in the picture ? Something got to be holding the axle in place in order to test and correct for ENDPLAY ~ I'M DONE

Quote: Originally Posted by Chopper View Post

I hope your local mechanic was talking about women and not motorcycles. Too tight will cause them to heat up. When you check the bearings for end play they must be clean & grease free, so your end play is probably more then .001 if you checked it after greasing. Plus the end play would increase with wear so I'm sure your safe, only thing you want to be careful of is that the shim with the raised area faces the bearing race or the shim could damage the bearing cage. Most old school bikers like the old style bearings because you take them out and clean & inspect them every 10,000 miles, the new sealed bearings just go one day and there's no way of telling untill your a long side the road.

Breeze3at · Mar 22nd, 2011, 10:40 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by schooner View Post

Hey Chopper

I'm a first timer @ this & maybe the last time ~ going NUTS on how to understand this ENDPLAY deal.

Got new tires; new race has been pressed-in by M/C Shop. Got all new Timken Bearings,Seals & Shims. Got Magnetic Stand & Dial Indicator too.
Now if only I can understand how the heck can I check and correct ENDPLAY while my wheel are OFF my '85 Electra Glide Classic - Whew

Questions:

Lets say I want to check for ENDPLAY by putting my wheels back on the bike without grease (at least I know that much so far) Got everything in the hub against the pressed race i.e. Metal spacer which Plastic spacer is wrap around;
next is: shimes (4) were taken out and (4) new ones in. Stepped spacer is the first one in back of bearing YES/NO ?

O.K. I tighten it all up according to specs .002 - .006
Now where do I place my magnetic stand ? on the brake disc YES/NO ?
If its YES - then I place my dial indicator point WHERE ?

So that's where I am now till you tell me and show HOW-2-.

I came across this picture but DON'T know how it works completely YET.

What's happening on the other side of the wheel/axle in the picture ? Something got to be holding the axle in place in order to test and correct for ENDPLAY ~ I'M DONE

Schooner welcome to the forum, and kudo's to you for doing a search on your subject.
Thick washer goes next to bearing race, then shims between that washer and the inner spacer sleeve.
Magnetic stand on brake disc, and pointer on axle end. Then pull/push wheel side to side for end play.
What is not evident in the picture you posted, is that there are spacers on the axle, and it's all tightened up like it would be on the bike. The axle is pulled/pushed to get end play.
I hope this helps you.

fin_676 · Mar 22nd, 2011, 05:23 PM

I just replaced my wheel bearings about a month ago and my service manual tells me to check the end play with the wheel off the bike but i found the wheel to be a slippery rascal that wouldn't stay where i wanted it
so i used the bike to hold the wheel for me
so mount the wheel on the bike using a ll the normal spacers etc torque the axle to spec mount the magnetic plate on to the brake disc with the end of the gauge on the end of the axle push and pull to get the reading if it is OK within spec remove wheel from bike pack the bearings with grease and fit the oil seals
if it is out of spec slip out the bearing from the side the shims are on remove the shims measure the size of the shims and replace with the appropriate size of shims to get the end play correct part numbers for the shims along with their sizes are in the service manual

Brian

schooner · Mar 22nd, 2011, 06:11 PM

Hi Breeze3at

A couple (Hundered) things I just don't understand:

O.K. my wheels are NOT on my bike; next I prop-up my wheel(s) Vertially
with cedar blocks of whatever so they DON'T MOVE.

Questions:

What's STOPPING my axle from falling out the other side of the wheel?

Everything is put back into the hub; Timken tapered bearing(s),Shims. The Black rubber seal I believe I don't have to put in YET. YES/NO ? All without grease I got that.

And everything is tightened up to specs mine is: .002 --.006 for correct ENDPLAY.

Why In The World Would ENDPLAY (back & forth) havppen anyway

I just DON'T see the how too stopping my axle from coming out the other side of my wheel & if the spacers are in the way they came out - again shouldn't I have the correct ENDPLAY without dancing around all this checking and magnet stands & dial indicators - THERE'S "GOT TO BE A REASON (SAFETEY) YOU GUYS WANT ME TO DO THIS - and I might add I WANT TOO LEARN HOW TOO. It's very,very important that my wheels are True & Straight going down the highway at: 60 or 70MPH. HELP GUYS

Quote: Originally Posted by Breeze3at View Post

Schooner welcome to the forum, and kudo's to you for doing a search on your subject.
Thick washer goes next to bearing race, then shims between that washer and the inner spacer sleeve.
Magnetic stand on brake disc, and pointer on axle end. Then pull/push wheel side to side for end play.
What is not evident in the picture you posted, is that there are spacers on the axle, and it's all tightened up like it would be on the bike. The axle is pulled/pushed to get end play.
I hope this helps you.

fin_676 · Mar 22nd, 2011, 06:27 PM

If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float
i found it easier to put it on the bike

Brian

Breeze3at · Mar 22nd, 2011, 07:10 PM

Fin's description in the preceeding post is better than I can say it. I always have done mine mounted in the forks, much easier for me.
Rubber grease seal does NOT need to be installed yet.
The reason end play "happens" is that each roller has a small amount of play in the cage. Then the play between the caged bearings and the tapered race is measured to insure there is enough clearance for the grease film to fit while it's all rotating you down the road.
Your concern is justified. It seems like you are on the right track to getting it done right. If you doubt your accuracy, take it to a shop.

schooner · Mar 24th, 2011, 03:29 PM

Hey Fin676 & All You Other Great Guys

I finally surrender to the fact I just couldn't get into my THICK HEAD just how the heck to check and correct for:
ENDPLAY in my wheels.

So off I went to a great M/C shop here in Vegas; NAKEDCITYCYCLES. Charlie the owner worked on my wheels exclusively and charged me ZERO, NOTHING, ZIP. GOD BLESS that man.

Charlie also put in my tires a product called: DYNA BEADS. There tiny beads of procline stuff I think they make dishes out of.

Any way this stuff rolls around in your tires and BALANCES 'EM automatically without having to put those little shiny weights that soon or later get GRAY on your wheels.

Thought that might help some here that might be interested in 'em.
NOW FOR SOME PICTURES.

Once again fellows ~ THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP

Quote: Originally Posted by fin_676 View Post

If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float
i found it easier to put it on the bike

Brian

fin_676 · Mar 24th, 2011, 03:41 PM

It is always good to watch someone that knows what they are doing and you will be learning
as you had a bit of an idea of what had to be done and you have seen it being done perhaps next time you need to do it you will be able to do it yourself

Brian

schooner · Jun 26th, 2011, 07:21 PM

Hey Brian & Guys Out There

I know I was told what to do and how to do it ~ but I FORGOT

It's about check for END PLAY.

Here's the novel so please bear with my guys.

Got all my body part custom painted '85 Electra Glide Classic.
Bought nice Wide White Walls both front and back.
Lets remember Brain your dealing with an ol' man who forget where the heck he lives sometimes . . .lol

Seriously, This thing of putting my bike together is really bringing me to school.
If it wasn't for you and the guys on this forum I'd just STOP and sell the bike: Neah I really don't think I would but sometimes it get so DEPRESSING. I miss riding.
O.K. ENOUGH about POOR me

While the body parts where out being painted I figure I put the new tires on the bike. Without the fender or dual brake caliper. Put the front wheel on and checked for END PLAY of whick I FORGOT how to do now !!!

O.K. the wheel spun great. But now the fender is back and now its been awhile since I took everythihng apart and I'm having one hard time getting everything back the way its suppose to be which is:

Front Fender
Dual Brake Calipers
End Play

Problem: I put the front fender on looks great. Now I put the wheel back on ( of which I forgot how to correct for END PLAY. But the wheel is on. Now I go to put the dual brake calipers on AND I CAN'T GET 'EM ON DUE TO THE FACT THE FRONT FENDER IS IN THE WAY

So off comes the front wheel and the front fender and there's the EMPTY FRONT FORK LOOKING @ ME AGAIN & AGAIN

Don't know where the heck to start guy.
Forgetting how to check for END PLAY & which part do I put on the bike first ?
Fender First won't work ~ can't get caliper pass the front wheel.

Wait maybe in this ol' brain of mine. Do I FIRST PUT THE CALIPERS ON THE ROTOR FIRST ?
Then install the wheel & check for END PLAY ( You gota tell how to do that again. Step-by Step Please.)
Then put the front fender on ?

All this stuff is driving me crazy; but I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE-UP even if it kills me.

I'm in your hands.

P.S. So I put the wheel back on & attach the dial indicator to the brake rotor YES/NO ? Place the pointer on the AXLE (WHICH END ? )

Just thinking out loud.

Quote: Originally Posted by fin_676 View Post

If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float
i found it easier to put it on the bike

Brian

May 3rd, 2010, 02:01 PM	#11
MBHD93 Start The Engine Ride: 1993 Dyna Lowrider Join Date: Nov 8th, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 28	Re: Front wheel end play I did check the end play after the bearings were greased. Duhhhhhhhhhhh. So, I too think it will be OK. I want to thank everyone for their help.

Mar 22nd, 2011, 09:48 AM	#12
schooner Start The Engine Ride: FLHT/CLASSIC Join Date: Jun 30th, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 41	Trying to understand how to check for ENDPLAY Hey Chopper I'm a first timer @ this & maybe the last time ~ going NUTS on how to understand this ENDPLAY deal. Got new tires; new race has been pressed-in by M/C Shop. Got all new Timken Bearings,Seals & Shims. Got Magnetic Stand & Dial Indicator too. Now if only I can understand how the heck can I check and correct ENDPLAY while my wheel are OFF my '85 Electra Glide Classic - Whew Questions: Lets say I want to check for ENDPLAY by putting my wheels back on the bike without grease (at least I know that much so far) Got everything in the hub against the pressed race i.e. Metal spacer which Plastic spacer is wrap around; next is: shimes (4) were taken out and (4) new ones in. Stepped spacer is the first one in back of bearing YES/NO ? O.K. I tighten it all up according to specs .002 - .006 Now where do I place my magnetic stand ? on the brake disc YES/NO ? If its YES - then I place my dial indicator point WHERE ? So that's where I am now till you tell me and show HOW-2-. I came across this picture but DON'T know how it works completely YET. *What's happening on the other side of the wheel/axle in the picture ? Something got to be holding the axle in place in order to test and correct for ENDPLAY ~ I'M DONE* Quote: Originally Posted by Chopper View Post I hope your local mechanic was talking about women and not motorcycles. Too tight will cause them to heat up. When you check the bearings for end play they must be clean & grease free, so your end play is probably more then .001 if you checked it after greasing. Plus the end play would increase with wear so I'm sure your safe, only thing you want to be careful of is that the shim with the raised area faces the bearing race or the shim could damage the bearing cage. Most old school bikers like the old style bearings because you take them out and clean & inspect them every 10,000 miles, the new sealed bearings just go one day and there's no way of telling untill your a long side the road. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Schooner *GOD bless you ALL*

Mar 22nd, 2011, 10:40 AM	#13
Breeze3at Contributor$ Ride: 2007 Electra Glide Classic Join Date: Aug 18th, 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 3,520 My Mood:	Re: Trying to understand how to check for ENDPLAY Quote: Originally Posted by schooner View Post Hey Chopper I'm a first timer @ this & maybe the last time ~ going NUTS on how to understand this ENDPLAY deal. Got new tires; new race has been pressed-in by M/C Shop. Got all new Timken Bearings,Seals & Shims. Got Magnetic Stand & Dial Indicator too. Now if only I can understand how the heck can I check and correct ENDPLAY while my wheel are OFF my '85 Electra Glide Classic - Whew Questions: Lets say I want to check for ENDPLAY by putting my wheels back on the bike without grease (at least I know that much so far) Got everything in the hub against the pressed race i.e. Metal spacer which Plastic spacer is wrap around; next is: shimes (4) were taken out and (4) new ones in. Stepped spacer is the first one in back of bearing YES/NO ? O.K. I tighten it all up according to specs .002 - .006 Now where do I place my magnetic stand ? on the brake disc YES/NO ? If its YES - then I place my dial indicator point WHERE ? So that's where I am now till you tell me and show HOW-2-. I came across this picture but DON'T know how it works completely YET. *What's happening on the other side of the wheel/axle in the picture ? Something got to be holding the axle in place in order to test and correct for ENDPLAY ~ I'M DONE* Schooner welcome to the forum, and kudo's to you for doing a search on your subject. Thick washer goes next to bearing race, then shims between that washer and the inner spacer sleeve. Magnetic stand on brake disc, and pointer on axle end. Then pull/push wheel side to side for end play. What is not evident in the picture you posted, is that there are spacers on the axle, and it's all tightened up like it would be on the bike. The axle is pulled/pushed to get end play. I hope this helps you. __________________ I don't ride fast, but I do ride far.

Mar 22nd, 2011, 05:23 PM	#14
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 4,000 My Mood:	Re: Front wheel end play I just replaced my wheel bearings about a month ago and my service manual tells me to check the end play with the wheel off the bike but i found the wheel to be a slippery rascal that wouldn't stay where i wanted it so i used the bike to hold the wheel for me so mount the wheel on the bike using a ll the normal spacers etc torque the axle to spec mount the magnetic plate on to the brake disc with the end of the gauge on the end of the axle push and pull to get the reading if it is OK within spec remove wheel from bike pack the bearings with grease and fit the oil seals if it is out of spec slip out the bearing from the side the shims are on remove the shims measure the size of the shims and replace with the appropriate size of shims to get the end play correct part numbers for the shims along with their sizes are in the service manual Brian __________________ I try to put my brain in gear before my hands go on the keyboard Self Help Information and Tips - Harley Davidson Community

Mar 22nd, 2011, 06:11 PM	#15
schooner Start The Engine Ride: FLHT/CLASSIC Join Date: Jun 30th, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 41	O.K. I got that so F A R . . . However ! Hi Breeze3at A couple (Hundered) things I just don't understand: O.K. my wheels are NOT on my bike; next I prop-up my wheel(s) Vertially with cedar blocks of whatever so they DON'T MOVE. Questions: What's STOPPING my axle from falling out the other side of the wheel? Everything is put back into the hub; Timken tapered bearing(s),Shims. The Black rubber seal I believe I don't have to put in YET. YES/NO ? All without grease I got that. And everything is tightened up to specs mine is: .002 --.006 for correct ENDPLAY. Why In The World Would ENDPLAY (back & forth) havppen anyway I just DON'T see the how too stopping my axle from coming out the other side of my wheel & if the spacers are in the way they came out - again shouldn't I have the correct ENDPLAY without dancing around all this checking and magnet stands & dial indicators - THERE'S "GOT TO BE A REASON (SAFETEY) YOU GUYS WANT ME TO DO THIS - and I might add I WANT TOO LEARN HOW TOO. It's very,very important that my wheels are True & Straight going down the highway at: 60 or 70MPH. HELP GUYS Quote: Originally Posted by Breeze3at View Post Schooner welcome to the forum, and kudo's to you for doing a search on your subject. Thick washer goes next to bearing race, then shims between that washer and the inner spacer sleeve. Magnetic stand on brake disc, and pointer on axle end. Then pull/push wheel side to side for end play. What is not evident in the picture you posted, is that there are spacers on the axle, and it's all tightened up like it would be on the bike. The axle is pulled/pushed to get end play. I hope this helps you. __________________ Schooner *GOD bless you ALL*

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Mar 22nd, 2011, 06:27 PM	#16
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 4,000 My Mood:	Re: Front wheel end play If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float i found it easier to put it on the bike Brian __________________ I try to put my brain in gear before my hands go on the keyboard Self Help Information and Tips - Harley Davidson Community

Mar 22nd, 2011, 07:10 PM	#17
Breeze3at Contributor$ Ride: 2007 Electra Glide Classic Join Date: Aug 18th, 2009 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 3,520 My Mood:	Re: O.K. I got that so F A R . . . However ! Fin's description in the preceeding post is better than I can say it. I always have done mine mounted in the forks, much easier for me. Rubber grease seal does NOT need to be installed yet. The reason end play "happens" is that each roller has a small amount of play in the cage. Then the play between the caged bearings and the tapered race is measured to insure there is enough clearance for the grease film to fit while it's all rotating you down the road. Your concern is justified. It seems like you are on the right track to getting it done right. If you doubt your accuracy, take it to a shop. __________________ I don't ride fast, but I do ride far.

Mar 24th, 2011, 03:29 PM	#18
schooner Start The Engine Ride: FLHT/CLASSIC Join Date: Jun 30th, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 41	To all my brother riders the deed is done Hey Fin676 & All You Other Great Guys I finally surrender to the fact I just couldn't get into my THICK HEAD just how the heck to check and correct for: ENDPLAY in my wheels. So off I went to a great M/C shop here in Vegas; NAKEDCITYCYCLES. Charlie the owner worked on my wheels exclusively and charged me ZERO, NOTHING, ZIP. GOD BLESS that man. Charlie also put in my tires a product called: DYNA BEADS. There tiny beads of procline stuff I think they make dishes out of. Any way this stuff rolls around in your tires and BALANCES 'EM automatically without having to put those little shiny weights that soon or later get GRAY on your wheels. Thought that might help some here that might be interested in 'em. NOW FOR SOME PICTURES. *Once again fellows ~ THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP* Quote: Originally Posted by fin_676 View Post If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float i found it easier to put it on the bike Brian Attached Thumbnails __________________ Schooner *GOD bless you ALL*

Mar 24th, 2011, 03:41 PM	#19
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 4,000 My Mood:	Re: Front wheel end play It is always good to watch someone that knows what they are doing and you will be learning as you had a bit of an idea of what had to be done and you have seen it being done perhaps next time you need to do it you will be able to do it yourself Brian __________________ I try to put my brain in gear before my hands go on the keyboard Self Help Information and Tips - Harley Davidson Community

Jun 26th, 2011, 07:21 PM	#20
schooner Start The Engine Ride: FLHT/CLASSIC Join Date: Jun 30th, 2010 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 41	Re: Front wheel end play ~ Here I Go Again & Again Hey Brian & Guys Out There I know I was told what to do and how to do it ~ but I FORGOT It's about check for END PLAY. Here's the novel so please bear with my guys. Got all my body part custom painted '85 Electra Glide Classic. Bought nice Wide White Walls both front and back. Lets remember Brain your dealing with an ol' man who forget where the heck he lives sometimes . . .lol Seriously, This thing of putting my bike together is really bringing me to school. If it wasn't for you and the guys on this forum I'd just STOP and sell the bike: Neah I really don't think I would but sometimes it get so DEPRESSING. I miss riding. O.K. ENOUGH about POOR me While the body parts where out being painted I figure I put the new tires on the bike. Without the fender or dual brake caliper. Put the front wheel on and checked for END PLAY of whick I FORGOT how to do now !!! O.K. the wheel spun great. But now the fender is back and now its been awhile since I took everythihng apart and I'm having one hard time getting everything back the way its suppose to be which is: Front Fender Dual Brake Calipers End Play Problem: I put the front fender on looks great. Now I put the wheel back on ( of which I forgot how to correct for END PLAY. But the wheel is on. Now I go to put the dual brake calipers on AND I CAN'T GET 'EM ON DUE TO THE FACT THE FRONT FENDER IS IN THE WAY So off comes the front wheel and the front fender and there's the EMPTY FRONT FORK LOOKING @ ME AGAIN & AGAIN Don't know where the heck to start guy. Forgetting how to check for END PLAY & which part do I put on the bike first ? Fender First won't work ~ can't get caliper pass the front wheel. Wait maybe in this ol' brain of mine. Do I FIRST PUT THE CALIPERS ON THE ROTOR FIRST ? Then install the wheel & check for END PLAY ( You gota tell how to do that again. Step-by Step Please.) Then put the front fender on ? All this stuff is driving me crazy; but I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE-UP even if it kills me. I'm in your hands. P.S. So I put the wheel back on & attach the dial indicator to the brake rotor YES/NO ? Place the pointer on the AXLE (WHICH END ? ) Just thinking out loud. Quote: Originally Posted by fin_676 View Post If you have reassembled the wheel correctly with the bearings and shims you then need extra spacers to fill the area of the axle between the wheel and the head and the wheel and the nut and tighten the axle to 65 ft lbs the head on one side of the axle and the nut on the other end pushing against the spacers that push on the bearings hold the axle in a fixed position although there should be that wee bit of movement that is end float i found it easier to put it on the bike Brian Attached Thumbnails __________________ Schooner *GOD bless you ALL* Last edited by dbmg; Jun 28th, 2011 at 04:11 PM.

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