Hard Starting in First Gear

wildspirit97 · May 21st, 2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfmitch

Clutch hub? Could you maybe 'splain to me just how that would cause the problem? I'm not picturing it.

I had broken tooth on the starter ring on mine, and Harley replaced the whole clutch assembly because it comes as a whole unit. I don't figure they would fix the clutch, I'm just guessing here, but if they do warranty it, they would just replace the whole clutch assembly.

jims87flh · May 21st, 2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfmitch

Wild:
That lurch you describe is exactly what my RK does. My Sportster did it too. He does have accessory Harley grips that are thicker. When we redo the clutch adjustment we'll try to take into account for the extra thickness of the grips. Clutch hub? Could you maybe 'splain to me just how that would cause the problem? I'm not picturing it.

I believe, if properly adjusted, your clutch should start to disengage at 1/8 - 3/16's of an inch, and be fully disengaged well before you get near the hand grip.

bfmitch · May 21st, 2009, 10:19 AM

When his motor is already running, the clutch acts normally. The clutch starts to disengage when the lever is pulled in a small amount. It is completely disengaged well before the lever reaches the hand grips. I'm thinking that's not the problem since I had Iso-Grips on my Sportster (much larger diameter) and never had any problems like my son is having.

Here's what I'm thinking. Let's see how well I do explaining my thoughts.

Fact: When the engine is running on my son's bike the clutch acts normally.

Fact: Many Harleys (most?) give a small lurch if you try to start them cold in first gear with just the clutch pulled in.

Assumption: If all else is correct (clutch adjustment, proper oil level, etc) The clutch needs to be spinning at some minimum rpm before it truly disengages when the clutch lever is pulled in. I.E. The clutch does not
completely disengage when the lever is pulled in when the motor is not running. Picture a disk brake. The pads are always in contact with the rotor. It takes some minimal amount of power from the engine to break the contact between the pad and rotor.

It seems to me, if my above assumption is correct, that the springs in the clutch and the condition of the clutch itself will determine what the minimum rpm for complete clutch disengagement will be. His clutch does not want to completely disengage until the motor has reached a higher rpm.

If all that is true, his clutch needs to be replaced. Now I just have to sell that to the dealer.

Any comments? Am I making this more difficult that it needs to be?

glider · May 21st, 2009, 11:46 AM

Could be warped plates that would give you the problem you are having or a bad clutch basket that is moving on the shaft.

bfmitch · May 21st, 2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glider

Could be warped plates that would give you the problem you are having or a bad clutch basket that is moving on the shaft.

I can see the warped plates but if the basket was moving on the shaft wouldn't that cause an intermittent problem? I'm certainly not gainsaying you, just trying to understand what's happening.

He's going to take it to Timpanogos Harley about 30 miles south of here. It's not the dealer where he bought the bike, and the extended warranty. We'll see what they have to say about it. If worse comes to worse he can take it to the dealer in Vernal, UT (a nice 3 hour ride). I've heard they have a hot-shot mechanic. If I had some way of proving any of this we could go back to the original dealer and hold their feet to the fire.

jims87flh · May 21st, 2009, 12:45 PM

If you are taking it to the dealer with the hotshot mechanic, I'd let him fix it, and let HD and the selling dealer worry about the bill.

bfmitch · May 21st, 2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jims87flh

If you are taking it to the dealer with the hotshot mechanic, I'd let him fix it, and let HD and the selling dealer worry about the bill.

Abolutely! It also may determine where we go to buy my wife's bike and my other son's bike.

fin_676 · May 21st, 2009, 05:06 PM

Just a little thought on the problem clutch plates may be a little contaminated
the oil on the plates helps them stick together like a rubber sucker on a window if the oil was over full might still be too much oil in the wrong place and this may cause the binding at slow spin speed but be ok at high speed

just a thought

Brian

bfmitch · May 21st, 2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fin_676

Just a little thought on the problem clutch plates may be a little contaminated
the oil on the plates helps them stick together like a rubber sucker on a window if the oil was over full might still be too much oil in the wrong place and this may cause the binding at slow spin speed but be ok at high speed

just a thought

Brian

Brian,
That seems like a good thought. If that's the case the problem ought to get better with time. I don't think I want to go in there and spray everything down with brake cleaner.

fin_676 · May 21st, 2009, 05:53 PM

If it was me id strip it and thoroughly clean all the plates
and if i found any problems while in there id sort them out
but if still under warranty then it'll have to go to the dealers

I'm in the north of Scotland no dealers here have to do all my own work takes up to 4 weeks to get any parts i need so i have to have a spare bike in case one has a problem (short summer) so my way of doing things is the only way i can get anything done

Brian

May 21st, 2009, 10:19 AM	#13
bfmitch Contributor$ Ride: 2009 Road King Join Date: Jul 2nd, 2008 Location: Herriman, Utah Posts: 142	Re: Hard Starting in First Gear When his motor is already running, the clutch acts normally. The clutch starts to disengage when the lever is pulled in a small amount. It is completely disengaged well before the lever reaches the hand grips. I'm thinking that's not the problem since I had Iso-Grips on my Sportster (much larger diameter) and never had any problems like my son is having. Here's what I'm thinking. Let's see how well I do explaining my thoughts. Fact: When the engine is running on my son's bike the clutch acts normally. Fact: Many Harleys (most?) give a small lurch if you try to start them cold in first gear with just the clutch pulled in. Assumption: If all else is correct (clutch adjustment, proper oil level, etc) The clutch needs to be spinning at some minimum rpm before it truly disengages when the clutch lever is pulled in. I.E. The clutch does not completely disengage when the lever is pulled in when the motor is not running. Picture a disk brake. The pads are always in contact with the rotor. It takes some minimal amount of power from the engine to break the contact between the pad and rotor. It seems to me, if my above assumption is correct, that the springs in the clutch and the condition of the clutch itself will determine what the minimum rpm for complete clutch disengagement will be. His clutch does not want to completely disengage until the motor has reached a higher rpm. If all that is true, his clutch needs to be replaced. Now I just have to sell that to the dealer. Any comments? Am I making this more difficult that it needs to be? __________________ Burt

May 21st, 2009, 11:46 AM	#14
glider Community Liaison Ride: 07 Road King Classic Join Date: Jun 21st, 2007 Posts: 21,068 My Mood:	Re: Hard Starting in First Gear Could be warped plates that would give you the problem you are having or a bad clutch basket that is moving on the shaft. __________________ Psssst! Please stop by the "self help section" for maintenance tips, diagnostic codes and much more. click me!>>Self Help Information and Tips<< click me!

May 21st, 2009, 12:45 PM	#16
jims87flh Banned Ride: 1987 Flhtc Join Date: May 7th, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 102 My Mood:	Re: Hard Starting in First Gear If you are taking it to the dealer with the hotshot mechanic, I'd let him fix it, and let HD and the selling dealer worry about the bill.

May 21st, 2009, 05:06 PM	#18
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 779 My Mood:	Re: Hard Starting in First Gear Just a little thought on the problem clutch plates may be a little contaminated the oil on the plates helps them stick together like a rubber sucker on a window if the oil was over full might still be too much oil in the wrong place and this may cause the binding at slow spin speed but be ok at high speed just a thought Brian

May 21st, 2009, 05:53 PM	#20
fin_676 Moderators Ride: 1992 Softail Custom Join Date: Dec 21st, 2008 Location: Banffshire,Scotland Posts: 779 My Mood:	Re: Hard Starting in First Gear If it was me id strip it and thoroughly clean all the plates and if i found any problems while in there id sort them out but if still under warranty then it'll have to go to the dealers I'm in the north of Scotland no dealers here have to do all my own work takes up to 4 weeks to get any parts i need so i have to have a spare bike in case one has a problem (short summer) so my way of doing things is the only way i can get anything done Brian

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Hard Starting in First Gear

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