Which is Faster????

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by Randall K. Wilson, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. Randall K. Wilson

    Randall K. Wilson Junior Member

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    If a party has a Harley say with a 110cu in engine. You know like a fast screamin' eagle or something. Can this outrun a crotch rocket? Now the reason I ask, I talked to a Gent at the Harley shop last week. His RK has a hopped up engine. Since trying to make it faster, he is getting major repairs done to it for the 3rd time.:newsmile093:

    According to this gent he said, "I know what my problem is, I like to race stop light to stop light." :wall:wall:wall (Now this guy is old enough to be a Grandpa)...So I ask him, "Can you out race a crotch rocket? His answer was...If I race a pack of 8, I can beat 6 of them and the 2 that I beat give me a look of old man we respect you." It was all I could do to keep from doing this :lolrolling on the Dealers showroom floor. He also bragged about shifting gears without using a clutch...(why have a clutch if you are not going to use it..hhhmmm). Then I was wondering....I wonder how many of those crotch rockets had to get major work done to their engines from racing this ole dude on his whiz bang by golly hopped up Harley?

    However with all that being said, I just wonder if he is embellishing things just a bit? :small3d031: I don't know that much about crotch rockets, but I would think most HD's, would be dogmeat up against a crotch rocket. It is all a mechanical and technical thingy.

    So I pose a question. Are there folk on the forum who have blown the foot pegs off of crotch rockets with their Harley?

    Please respond.
     
  2. SledDog

    SledDog Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Well... Let's see...

    Many of the sport bikes have 150hp on tap... That's stock. The old rule was Harley's make the torque at low rpms and could beat a sport bike stop light to stop light...

    That was years past. Sport bikes now make more torque (then they used to) at lower rpms. But they still make most of their power at higher rpms. They also can spool their motors to their sweet spots faster.

    As for the clutch deal.. You can power shift without using the clutch. Its bad for the tranny. Really bad if you don't hit the rpm to power shift right.

    The easiest way to get a quick shift from a harley, sport bike or what ever is to slightly pull in the clutch lever, how much depends on the bike, and then shift. Do not roll off the throttle when doing it. Most Harleys don't do this well, sport bikes do. Some sport bikes (my track bike is equipped this way) are equipped with an ignition cut out switch. The switch cuts out the ignition module power and allows for shifting with no clutch usage because drive train load goes away while the ignition is off. The one on my track bike is activated when you move the shift lever. Some sport bikes (racing or set up to race, or someone that has invested the money) have electric shifting. Mash the up/down button and it kills the ignition and shifts the gears. Both system work well. Both system do this in a fraction of a second.

    As for blowing the foot pegs off a sport bike while riding my harleys... Yea, I have done it a few times. I can also strip the paint off a harley with any of my sport bikes.

    It's tuff to run a short race on a sport bike. The power of the motor wants to put the front end in the air. But an experience sport bike rider will beat an experienced harley rider most, if not all, of the time.

    Power to weight ratios have a lot to do with it. Harleys are waaayyy heavier then a sport bike. But a harley can put most of its initial power on the ground without having the front end come up....

    You'll need to shift that harley before the sport bike does. My Ducati will do well over 100mph in 1st gear. But the power sweet spot, for 1st gear, is about 60-65 mph. And it will get there pretty fast.

    Remember this is "stoplight to stoplight". But, on an overall move from place to place (since I don't street race---anymore), not only will I strip the paint off a harley, but the time difference from when I arrive and the harley arrives will be long enough for the tins to have rusted. That's if I street raced.. Now track days (be it drag racing or a road course) are a different story. That's the place to prove what's what. Not the street.

    The key here is technique, riding ability and knowing what your machine will and will not do. And how well the machine does it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  3. DYNAGUY

    DYNAGUY Active Member

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    You sound pretty much like you know what you talking about. But would you not agree . When it comes down to your average rider the jap machines have a big advantage?:newsmile026:
     
  4. 5Pack

    5Pack Member

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    I would tend to think the cafe racer (all other things being equal) would have the upper hand light to light.
    Maybe the next time a rider on a rice burner wants to race, you could suggest "OK, to the Grand Canyon and back!":18:
     
  5. SledDog

    SledDog Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    True... If the sport bike guy (sport bikes are not just Jap machines, both of mine at Italian) knows how to ride.

    Put 2 riders with limited experience at a light, one on a harley, one on a sport bike, and I'd give the edge to the harley rider. Why, because the harley is easier to launch from a stop. Launch the harley hard and what happens? The harley goes forward in a fairly controlled way. The sport bike launches hard and the front end gets light. Maybe to the point of it coming off the ground. So the sport bike guys has to back off the throttle to keep it under control. And if he doesn't, the front end comes up and maybe over (I've seen that happen). The harley wins

    A sport bike rider with no experience in controlling a bike with the front end in the air, or launching the bike and keeping the front from going into the air, will not be able to launch hard enough to beat a harley. Again, this is stoplight to stoplight.

    The ones I have beat (on my Harleys) are the wanna-be, I just got a new sport bike that I don't know how to ride, I bought this bike because I saw some racing on TV this past weekend, and I look really cool riding in flip-flops, shorts and a t-shirt with a $600 Shoei helmet, guys.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  6. SledDog

    SledDog Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I like your reference to the old style name for the original Formula 1 racing machines...

    Again, the sport bike rider would have the advantage. Unless when you say "OK, to the Grand Canyon and back", your talking about this....
     

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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  7. Fossil

    Fossil Active Member

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    Lets get real here. A 600cc sport bike can out run a Harley twin cam. You can build up a Harley but so can the sport bike and still beat you. A generic sport bike rider gets on his bike and rides fast to get to where he wants. A generic cruiser rider gets on his bike and rides fast to get to where he wants. A Harley rider gets on his bike and he is where he wants to be. Look at the hightways when ever you go some where. The majority bikes are Harleys. Fossil
     
  8. gs34

    gs34 Junior Member

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    Fossil says: A generic sport bike rider gets on his bike and rides fast to get to where he wants. A generic cruiser rider gets on his bike and rides fast to get to where he wants. A Harley rider gets on his bike and he is where he wants to be.

    Well there ya go. Fossil, I think you hit that one outta the park!!!
     
  9. SledDog

    SledDog Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Sure it can.. But, stoplight to stoplight with rookie riders... Oh never mind, you saw it, you know what I said. But I guess you choose to ignore that.

    Are you really that self centered to think no one else is "where they want to be" if they don't ride a harley? That has to be one of the most asinine comments I've seen posted on this forum. I did not realize you had mind reading abilities. Or did you take a survey of sport bike and metric cruiser riders? How about veering a little more off the subject of what was originally posted.

    Looks like it's time for new glasses. You make it sound like Harley is selling 5 million units a year. I see Honda, Suzukis, Yamaha, Triumphs, BMWs, Ducatis , Indians old and new, Victorys and Harleys on the road (highway) every day. The harleys are out numbered. Oops... I forgot... The those $5 sunglasses you bought at the dealer for $100 are tinted to only see harleys...

    So how about reading the OP's post again and posting something relevant to the discussion. BTW instead of posting "Fossil says:"... you could use the quote feature.

    Does the fact that others ride something different really bother you guys that much? Do you really feel the need to pat yourselves on the back, while running other motorcyclists in to the ground, to advance your self-esteem?

    Fossil.. One more thing.. What say we meet half way between Lake City and the Jacksonville, that's probably half way between both of us. We could do the loop of Florida. Down 75, across the alley, up 95 to 10 and back to the starting point. That's what, maybe 700+ miles for the day. You ride your FLHS and I'll ride my F4 1000. I can guarantee I will enjoy the ride just as much as you will. Because I'll be just where I want to be. On my MV Agusta enjoying the ride, the scenery and just being in the wind. I've said it before and I'll say it again. It makes no difference what you ride, as long as you're riding!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  10. SledDog

    SledDog Senior Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Thanks for posting the 2003 numbers, anything newer than 5 years old. Any comment on the OP?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008