What are they thinking?

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by simius, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. simius

    simius Banned

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    Maybe that is a rhetorical question, since it seems they have a license to print money, but...

    Let me state that I am a new Harley owner. Got my shiny new '15 FLSTN, and somehow I am okay with the notion that I now need to get an air cleaner, pipes, and tune. Then I start reading about warranty issues; then I start researching here and learn about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act; then I go and ask the dealer; then I read disturbing info in the 2015 Harley catalog...

    Bottom line is, I am sitting here with money in hand, and now I am not going to do anything to my intake, exhaust, tune because it will almost certainly void my warranty. This is not like putting a license plate holder on or something. If you modify the way the engine operates, then Magnuson-Moss is not going to help you. Sure, I can get the "street legal" stuff from the catalog, pay two prices and then pay again for them to install it, but why should I?

    Okay, so I made the mistake of buying a new Harley with an extended warranty. Lesson learned. And what did I learn? Never buy a new one and never buy an Harley extended warranty...LOL I can't imagine a worse way to get future business, and they better be glad there seems to be no shortage of people willing, because if that ever changes they are in trouble.

    Don't misunderstand, I love my new bike. I am just flabbergasted that they would hobble their BEST customers like this.
     
  2. dbmg

    dbmg Experienced Member

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    Usually there does not seem to be a problem if you purchase aftermarket items and have installed by dealer before delivery. I am surprised that even with the inflated prices, purchasing at dealer and having dealer install said items they still claim that you will affect your warty coverage that the dealer sold you. I would find a new dealer because this makes no sense. Any ways use the money to put gas in the tank, learn to live with a quiet okay running new Harley and forgitaboutit...... :s
     
  3. simius

    simius Banned

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    Oh man, I love this thing. I just, you know, would like to make it EVEN BETTER. But now, unless I get a refund on the extended warranty, it is going to be FIVE YEARS before I mod it (unless I sell it or something). But getting a refund is not really an option given their sketchy history with quality, since I intend to keep it for at least 3 - 4, and maybe much longer. Absolutely love it, but it is a real drag that they would put these onerous terms on.

    You know, it is not like cars. How many times have you heard "the first thing Harley owners do is upgrade their exhaust". That was the first question my best Harley friends asked when I got it--What kind of pipes and intake are you getting? But I could go buy an Mustang or 'Vette and never upgrade anything, you know? But with these it is understood--and like I said, I have no problem with that. I understand they do not make emissions laws--but dang, this is crazy.
     
  4. simius

    simius Banned

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    One more thing, and not picking on you dbmg... Take a look at the bottom of page 478 of the 2015 Harley catalog, the Screamin' Eagle section, where it says "Warranty". That's about the only place I can find an official Harley statement on this stuff (The fact that they are so silent and leave it to internet misinformation should be a warning...). It basically says that to keep your warranty you must: buy only street legal stuff, let them install it, BUT then each item says this is street legal ONLY if you don't combine it with certain others.

    So, as far as I can tell, and I can't be certain (and they obviously intended it this way), but I can get a basic air filter, pipes (but no mention of tune), as long as I let them do it.

    I kinda don't blame them, but they should be WAAAY more up front and clear about this stuff. I think the Eagle is Screamin' because somebody in Milwaukee has their (EDIT) up his (EDIT) .


    Please read this...
    [note]
    HDTalking Language Policy - Harley Davidson Community
    [/note]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2015
  5. Jeff Klarich

    Jeff Klarich Well-Known Member Contributor

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    This topic has been covered before and if memory serves me in order for the warranty to be voided it has to be a failure of the upgrade that caused any damage. Harley dealerships sell and will install aftermarket products on scoots with warranty and claim it will not affect warranties.
     
  6. simius

    simius Banned

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    I mentioned internet misinformation. What matters in court is what the law says and what legal documents say. It doesn't matter what anyone says here or at the dealership; what matters is when we have a real problem and have to live with the facts. As far as intake/exhaust/tune is concerned, it looks like the vaunted Magnuson-Moss and their own docs have them pretty well covered, though.

    If I'm wrong I'll just cash the extended warranty now, and sell this as soon as the warranty is up and probably never (never say never) get another new one. But I don't think I am wrong, and since I like it I'll enjoy it like dbmg said and keep my peace of mind and skip the upgrades. If this turns into a long-term love affair then I'll just buy used next time.

    Which brings me to my original point, why would they do this and how could it be good for business? I assert it is only good if you have more business than you can handle anyway, and you don't really care.
     
  7. simius

    simius Banned

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    Ah, well, rant's over. I'm not going to let this bug me for 5 years. LOL It is a disappointment, but considering the pleasure I am getting from the bike already it is ultimately no big deal to me, although I might have done things differently had I known, and probably will next time.

    For posterity, to those considering a NEW Harley, be aware that you won't be able to do "the first thing every Harley owner does" if you want to keep your warranty or extended warranty.

    To Harley: Knowing that EVERYONE customizes your motorcycles, you should develop clear, up-front guidelines about what can be done, what products can be used, and who can do the work. This should be a mandatory part of the purchase process; your customers should not have to rely on internet misinformation, sea lawyers, and wet-nosed dealer employees who sound unsure and divert their eyes while verbally promising. Your current policies discourage wise consumers from buying new, from buying your extended warranties, and from buying your upgrades. This is a recipe for business disaster if you didn't have such fiercely loyal customers and no competition (but the competition is heating so you might want to be changing soon...)
     
  8. dbmg

    dbmg Experienced Member

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    It seems that Harley has and is becoming more proprietary to cover it own interest and reduce costs and increase profits. It seems that their warranty policy is trying to hold customers hostage to only purchasing Harley's higher priced approved aftermarket accessories that are listed in the P&A catalog. So I can understand why a dealer would take a stand if any of the many non Harley aftermarket accessories are installed that the warranty would be null and void. It makes good business sense. So I bet that if you walked into dealer with a hand full of cash and purchased all the Screaming eagle accessories including the Super tuner then all would be ok. Only problem is you will need a couple or three hand fulls of cash.....
     
  9. Dr. Dolittle

    Dr. Dolittle Experienced Member Staff Member Moderator Contributor

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    Here's a couple thoughts - my opinions only:

    1. I think you're confusing "wants" with "needs." A lot of HD owners, myself included, perform the Stage I upgrade because they want a different sound and/or they want their bike to run a bit cooler. Notice I said "want." This upgrade is not a "need," despite the peer pressure you mention because everyone else has done it. If you're looking for big performance gains then you WILL need to most likely go beyond even the Stage I and do cams or engine enlarging. But there are many, many HD owners putting years of satisfied miles on their bikes that are totally stock from the engine standpoint.

    2. Your implication that Harley quality only lets the bikes be reliable for 3 to 4 years is laughable. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of forum members with 10+ years and 100K+ miles on their bikes.

    3. Your current dealer is just trying to scare you to death and make you spend every upgrade dollar through them. In order to void the warranty, they have to prove that the mod in question was directly responsible for the warranty claim being investigated. Again, we have lots of members who have had an issue covered under warranty and their bikes were certainly not bone stock.

    Find another dealer, make the mods you want while spending your hard earned dollars where YOU want to, and enjoy that bike as long as you can!
     
  10. glazier

    glazier Junior Member

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    In my case, when I bought my 2013 Ultra Limited, I HAD to upgrade to Stage I to cool it down. Could hardly ride it in these hot Texas summers. It was even unbearabl if it wasn't 100* outside. My right leg was on fire, especially at stops. Could really feel the heat even cruising down the highway at 75 mph. I "wanted" to upgrade for better performance, but "needed" to so I could enjoy the ride. That thing was just too darn HOT!!!!! Removing the cats also helped a lot.