Things I saw during my 20k maintenance

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Dan.1977P, Jun 17, 2015.

  1. Dan.1977P

    Dan.1977P Active Member

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    I haven't finished everything I want yet but I do have some questions about what I've seen so far. Just a little back story, I have 06 Fatboy with VH Bug Radius 2:2 with quiet baffles, stage 1 AC with KN filter and a power commander III at 21000 miles. I know I'm running really rich now so we may be able to ignore the exhaust port pics but I'll post them anyway. I've always been rich since I picked up the bike last year and it got much worse after I installed the baffles. I should have expected some but not as much as I've seen.
    Plugs as dark grey and the exhaust port is black and tan leading me to believe the super rich condition is fairly new. Should I spray some seafoam in the ports just to break some of that stuff up or is it not necessary? Is there any way to tell if those gaskets were leaking? The decel popping is very rare now that I zeroed out the power commander so I assume the map that was on there up until last week was just dumping way too much fuel at about 2500 rpm and it was getting burned off when I came off the throttle.
    I checked the cam tensioner pads too. They look the same as they did when I picked up the bike 9k miles ago. I'm happy with the wear but they do look a little burned. I'm trying to wait until I can just change out the cams before getting a new cam plate with hydro tensioners so I can do it all at once. But if it's going to grenade, I'll do what needs to be done.
    I took the rocker cover to fix a leak and take a video for the forum and I think I know why it was leaking. The two messed up bolts are from the back of the rear cylinder and that's where the oil was coming from. I'm used to valve covers being under a hood so I don't see rust like that on the bolts. Is this normal on a bike? Would a drop of RTV under the washer be enough to prevent the water from getting in?
    Here is the video I posted in the other thread. I don't see anything troubling here. If you look hard enough, you can see some oil being drawn up into the spring on the zoomed portion.
    Rocker video
     

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  2. RibEye

    RibEye Junior Member Contributor

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    The one tensioner you show looks fine. is the other one in the same condition?

    It is hard to read combustion by deposits with these engines these days. Really need to sniff the exhaust to determine mixture. Dobeck has a sniffer you can rent.

    Enjoy,
    Rich P
     
  3. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    As RibEye says it is hard to diagnose AFR from looking at ports considering todays fuel. Having said that, those ports show a tad rich but not overly rich to me; the plugs would tell a better story. What is your MPG?

    Tensioner doesn't show much wear but the pieces that have come out of those pitted areas have circulated through to the filter. Have you noticed any orange bits of flotsam in your oil when oil was last changed? I wouldn't wait to long to replace or upgrade those tensioners. I have seen them look like yours at 21K miles and gone by 25K miles but have also seen them look like yours at 50K miles; it's a crap shoot.

    Running some Seafoam through the intake is never a bad idea. What you really need is a dyno tune.:s
     
  4. Jeff Klarich

    Jeff Klarich Well-Known Member Contributor

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    Try running some DurAlt fuel conditioner, it's designed to clean carbon deposits in engines. Google them and read up on the advantages to using it.

    I run a 1/4 oz every tank full and after using it for a season have noticed a difference.
     
  5. Dan.1977P

    Dan.1977P Active Member

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    33pmg after this last trip. I changed from SE air filter to the KN filter and put in the quiet baffles. I expected a bit of a change from the baffles since I was restricting airflow but 33 is way too low on a stage 1, IMO.

    I've attached the plug pics. Not bad but a little rich from what I can see. At 12k when I got it, they were nice and tan and then I changed them out to NGK's around 15k. I'm going back to Champions since I didn't notice a darn thing after putting iridiums in. They worked great in my 1.8T but I didn't feel or notice any change in gas mileage on the hog.

    That shoe looks just like it did when I got it so I think the pitting was already done. I didn't change the filter this time since I put in Mobile 1 about 2000 miles ago to see how I liked it and it runs a bit hotter than the AMSOil I had in there. That said, there may be some sediment in the filter.

    This is all getting me thinking again about what's next in terms of performance upgrades. I want more torque in the 40 - 60mph ranges. It purrs at 80mph and will still pull me up to 95 in 5th gear pretty easily. I don't want to lose that while gaining what I think is mid range torque. I noticed that by myself going through some of those passes that I'll be doing more of, it was struggling to keep 55-60 in 4th and really taching (no gauge so I can't give a number but it was like I was running hard through the gears). I'll want to fix that part more than anything, especially since we ride 2up a lot.

    If I'm going to replace the cam plate anyway, it seems silly to not just do the cams, rods, bearings while I'm there.

    Would putting 103 jugs on and leaving the cams for later be a decent option?

    No matter what I do, I want a new exhaust. I'm really leaning toward a ProPipe. I'd love to find one used and sell the Big Radius.
     

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  6. Jeff Klarich

    Jeff Klarich Well-Known Member Contributor

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    What makes you think those plugs are running rich?
     
  7. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    The plugs look good to me, The Iridium plugs are a waste of money IMO and can confuse the ion sensing, JMO
    Harley Davidson Forums
    Read here for more info
     
  8. Dan.1977P

    Dan.1977P Active Member

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    They went from light tan to grey. Makes me think it's running richer than it was before. I'm back to champions. I've always seen NGK Iridiums do great things and figured I'd try them in the hog. Didn't do squat so I went back to regular plugs.
     
  9. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    Changing plugs is not going to affect your AFR. Additionally, plugs cannot be accurately read unless a "plug cut" is done. To accurately read plugs, you need several sets of new plugs and go for a ride. To read plugs for AFR at cruise, you would run at cruise speed for a few minutes, shut the motor off and coast to the shoulder, pull the plugs and read. To read plugs for AFR at WOT, repeat, run at WOT in any gear, shut the motor off, coast to the shoulder, pull plugs and read.

    You read the ground strap for heat range, the base ring for AFR and the porcelain for pre-ignition/detonation.

    Your mid-range torque issue can be resolved with a bolt in cam set like the S&S 509 and Andrews 26 to name a couple.

    You really don't need to change the cam plate; the OEM cam plate is more than adequate for a mild cam upgrade. However, I would suggest that you change the tensioner shoes to the CYCO shoes, change the outer and inner cam bearings as part of the cam upgrade. You could upgrade the oil pump to the Drag Specialties pump but that's not really necessary either; a nice upgrade for $149.

    The 103 cylinders are nothing more than your 88 cylinders bored to 3.875" which would increase your displacement to 95"; also a nice upgrade that would help your mid-range torque. Having your cylinders bored to fit a set of SE cast flattop pistons is, IMHO, the most cost effective upgrade for a TC88 in terms of TQ/$$.

    The '06 heads were improved over the previous years and you would be amazed at the difference in performance you would gain from increasing displacement to 95", installing the S&S 509 cam set with a .030" head gasket and getting the motor dyno tuned; it would be a different ride and your two up riding much improved. All at a pretty reasonable price, particularly if you take on the project yourself. There are other cam sets that would work as well but would require a bit of head milling to set the compression sweet spot for the cam. While the heads are off, it would be a good idea to have them cleaned up, chambers measured and equalized, guide seals replaced and just skim off the surface to make sure the deck surface is square if not milled.

    BTW, I just happen to have a Propipe for sale. It does have some minor road rash on the bottom of the muffler that you have to get down on your knees and look up to see but otherwise it is in like new condition. If you are interested, PM me an email address and I will send you some photos.
     
  10. Jeff Klarich

    Jeff Klarich Well-Known Member Contributor

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    The plugs in your photo aren't showing your running to rich. Too rich would be more black and sooty looking.

    As dolt said it's hard to read a plug but a quick visual will give you an idea if you're to lean or too rich by color and condition.