Starter Problem

[R. Lewis]

its a 32amp kit, i believe the harley one comes with a new stator and rotor with much stronger magnets and a primary cover gasket, its been a while since i have installed one so i dont remember if thats everything that comes in the kit, i know there are after market kits that come with stator rotor gasket and a voltage regulator, in my experience the HD one has done the trick just fine every time.

10/4. Interesting. Yep 32 would be a nice boost.! Tks!

Not for sure the manf. (wasn't HD) I do know it is made in the USA -But I had my indy put a 32A on my 87 FXRC - $249.95 + tx and 40 bucks for a labor charge. I will give him a shout tomorrow and ask the name brand.

Thank you for the replies. I will get an ameter and check th amps to the starter. This bike has well over 50k on it and most of the components I replaced had wear but I agree I need to trouble shoot the system and go from there. I have put in a new charging system and regulator since I had the primary cover off anyway. The starter did spin the engine well with the plugs out. When I get the meter and and put the cover back on I will check the charge to the battery. Thanks...Rigidscoot

check with a meter- the plug where your stator wires plugs onto the housing. didn't pinch a wire when you put the charging system in did ya and what amp/size did you install????

 

[rigidscoot]

Sorry for the delay, I snuck in getting a new meter during all the Christmas shopping ect. Today took some readings. These are with the plugs out. There seems to be no unusual resistance to turning the motor over by hand with a socket on the compensator nut and the starter turns it over fine with the plugs out. I flipped over the washer in one of the solenoids and cleaned up the arced posts. Keep in mind I am new to using a inductive ammeter so if something sounds way out in left field it could be me.

Battery positive to solenoid 88 amps
Starter cable from Solenoid to Starter 81.7 amps
Negative battery cable 90.6 amps

I replaced the charging system complete with a Cycle Electric 32 amp system which includes a new regulator. My starter problems began before this upgrade. I took these readings with a fully charged new Odysey battery. I cleaned both the connectors to the pos as well as neg battery cables but have not replaced them or the starter to solenoid cable.

Again thanks for your expertise and help!

Rigidscoot

 

[tobaman]

hope this is still in the topic.

recenlty, been having trouble with fxdx starter. I thought it was the battery. checked the battery, all good. i once tried to jump start, nothing.:dknow

last night it failed to start, and i had people pushing :sd the bike several times and it worked.
this morning, fortunately, the starter didnt fail.:bigsmiley8:

there's this click sound coming from around the tranny case when the starter fails. i then after 15mins/few hours/even a day, start it again, then vroomm..the big twin awakes.

any help please? thanks!
:cheers

 

[Hoople]

If I understand your problem correctly, it's all about slow cranking. Those cranking currents you measured with the plugs out are Great. What has me puzzled is you say (entry point #2) engine cranks fine by hand and also underpower with the spark plugs removed. So everything is fine and normal until you install the plugs?

So to re-cap.
1) Engine does turn by hand OK at compensator nut.
2) Battery is New Odysey fully charged.
3) Already Changed starter (as stated in entry point #1)

Measure the starter current draw with the plugs installed while looking at the voltage across the battery with a volt meter (at the same time). What I want to know is when the engine cranks slowly, what is the voltage across the battery (measured AT THE Battery) and what is the current draw.

(Would there be any reason why your compression could or would be crazy high?)

 

[rigidscoot]

OK, I took a compression test with engine stone cold front at 65lbs and rear at 80lbs cranking a couple of revolutions. Plugs in, voltage across battery is 9.9 to 10 volts. Big differance is 143.8 amps on starter cable plugs in cranking! Starter was purchased through local shop but was a V-#### and I would assume from Taiwan. I have a shovel with what I think is the same Hitachi style starter but seems I should be able to bench test starter from EVO with out tearing apart my beloved 76. I am going to go back to shop and crank adding a jumper from starter ear where ground cable is bolted to negative on battery just to rule out resistance from the ground cable.

Thanks a Bunch! Rigidscoot

 

[Hoople]

You have got CRAZY numbers across the board. Do you have a radical cam in your engine. ? I can not believe you only have 65 PSI in 1 cylinder. Unless the intake cam profile is way advanced I can't see how you can only have 65 PSI. That's nothing. But at the same time the engine drags with the plugs in but does Not drag with the plugs out. ??

With the plugs in, the cranking current is Not that much, but the battery voltage is lower than I would expect since it is a new Odysey. Another ??

Nothing makes any sense.
1) You have a New Odysey battery. But the voltage drop across the battery with 165 amps is 2.5 volts. That is a lot.
2) Current draw is only 90 amps with the plugs out.. (this is Good)
3) But it cranks slowly when you install the plugs BUT at the same time you only have 65/80 PSI of compression. Makes NO sense.

 

[Hoople]

Typo in my post. I should have quoted 145 amps instead of 165. But that only makes the voltage drop across the battery even More dramatic. 2.5 volts of drop with a 145 amp load is a lot. At the same time, 145 amps cranking current is not excessive.

Only way I can explain such low cranking compression is by not having the throttle fully open while cranking with gauge installed thereby not allowing engine to inhale needed air to give a good reading. I realize engine was not warm, but I have never saw that much of a radical change from cold to hot. A few PSI yes, but not an extra 70.
But at the same time, higher compression numbers would only make the original problem worse.

By chance, did you make your compression test with throttle at idle?

 

[BUBBIE]

HOOPLE ,,,, YOU have a GOOD knowledge at this stuff....
YOU asked me to look and I agreed with your theory....on rigidscoot problem....

I also would think the same HOOPLE, if throttle not held open FULLY , compression could read LOW and you are right on about the engine should turn over almost as easy with these numbers on compression...

IF compression WAS tested correctly, the numbers are way too low to even run (imo) and the difference between the two cyl. (15 lbs different) is way too much...
ALSO stated " " " compression in a couple of cranks... MAYBE TRY 5 cranks on each cyl.... to see where the comp. is with throttle opened all the way.. JUST LIKE HOOPLE SAYS.....

JUST ME but second starter would be my GUESS...NEW doesn't mean good,,,
Under load it will not crank ANY load..

HOOPLE ... ALSO notice the question from

Tobaman on his 2004 fxdx in this same thread asks a question on HIS PROBLEM STARTER...

Tobaman sounds like a bad starter where one of the armatures may be dead ? OR a loose or dirty, bad connection at the starter hot post OR brushes worn out.... EVEN a worn-out armature bearing causing starter to MISALIGN,,, LOTS OF MAYBE'S or SOUNDS LIKE...

check for tightness of electrical cable to starter.... IF NO START and just CLICKS ......PUT IN 2 gear ,,,, BUMP AHEAD to move starter a little THEN see if it will kick over (moving starter off of bad spot).. If this allows it to start the problem is probably in the armature...

Whats your take on this one HOOPLE ?????

signed....BUBBIE

 

[Jack Klarich]

I think Bubbie and Hoople nailed it low compression for sure and new doesnt mean good a dragging amature bad bushings bad solenoid all problems for a bad starting bike

 

[rigidscoot]

Thanks to all! I will redo compression correctly and advise. I will try another starter also. Just out of curiosity, does the Solenoid plunger and its related spring ever cause a problem with the copper washer and the stud contacts?
Thanks Rigidscoot