Stage 2 done, More fuel?

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by jdaws, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. jdaws

    jdaws Active Member

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    I did my stage-1 last year. 2008 dyna, V/H big shots, Hi-Five air cleaner and a gen.3 TFI. I was very happy with the results.
    I decided to take it to a stage-2. I installed a set of Andrews 37H cams this weekend. The weather was bad, so I haven't had a chance to ride it yet.
    Will I need to add more fuel with my TFI ? More power means more fuel right? I am useing the stage-1 TFI settings that were in the instructions.
    I'm just asking for suggestions. I know I need to ride it and then adjust if I need. If it pulls hard and smooth, it should be good.
    Any other suggestions on how to determine if the fuel is is good?
    Any gen.3 TFI settings out there.
     
  2. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Hate to say it but the only real way is with an A/F ratio meter. Everything else is only a guess.
    You can't feel small changes in A/F ratios but those small changes mean a lot to the overall process of combustion. Especially on air cooled engines.
     
  3. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

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    modified/removed your quote:

    If it pulls hard and smooth, it should be good.
    Any other suggestions on how to determine if the fuel is is good?
    Any gen.3 TFI settings out there.[/QUOTE]

    WITHOUT the proper test equipment, I would go with the "SEAT OF THE PANTS" gauge and ALSO listen for a lean condition when backing off the throttle....... ANY popping will tell-tail a sign of lean...

    DOES IT FEEL THE SAME AS BEFORE ON THE RUN-ABILITY????

    You will probably get away with just adjusting the idle side of the TFI and it should be CLOSE in my opinion..

    get a few miles on it and check the plug COLORS , ck the exhaust ends also.

    LET US KNOW THE RESULTS......WE NEED to have this stuff ANSWERED to improve our ability to HELP!!

    so fire back!

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  4. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    WITHOUT the proper test equipment, I would go with the "SEAT OF THE PANTS" gauge and ALSO listen for a lean condition when backing off the throttle....... ANY popping will tell-tail a sign of lean...

    DOES IT FEEL THE SAME AS BEFORE ON THE RUN-ABILITY????

    You will probably get away with just adjusting the idle side of the TFI and it should be CLOSE in my opinion..

    get a few miles on it and check the plug COLORS , ck the exhaust ends also.

    LET US KNOW THE RESULTS......WE NEED to have this stuff ANSWERED to improve our ability to HELP!!

    so fire back!

    signed....BUBBIE[/QUOTE]

    Exactly what Bubbie says here, learn how to read your spark plugs, pay attention to the heat rings on the threads they will tell you a lot , Jack
     
  5. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Gauging your cruise or WOT A/F ratio by looking at your plugs, can lead you astray because any idling at all after a cruise or wide open throttle test will immediately change the shade of the plug. Lets say your idle A/F ratio is near perfect but your cruise or WOT is lean, you would have to kill the engine right at test speed and read the plugs. I have seen just 15 seconds of "cool down" change the shade of the plugs from test RPM.


    I may be wrong but I don't think it a big deal if the bike has a carburetor since most carbs run fat most of the time anyway and there is a lot of leeway. But on a FI bike it is a lot different because there is a different A/F ratio every 10 percent of twist grip rotation, every 500 increase in RPM and every inch of HG of intake vacuum.

    But like they say "your ride you decide"..
     
  6. robotoroadracer

    robotoroadracer Member

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    Hoople,
    The A/F ratio meters that I have seen piggyback off of the O2 sensor. My 04 is FI but has no O2 sensor, where would I tie in to read the ratio?
     
  7. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    If you plan on data recording while on the road, the best way is to weld in a Stainless steel bung. If your doing stationary tuning you probably can get away with a long thin tail pipe probe. But most of the tail pipe probe adapters I have used in the past don't work really well. Even the patented one by Innovate did not work well at all. Also the cross over pipe (if you have one) raises Havoc with cross blending of mixtures when using tail pipe probes. If you do weld in the bung, place it about 6-12" from the cylinder head if you can. Also position it so it's not positioned straight down. You want to avoid collecting water vapor in your O2 sensor.

    Certainly the best way is to have 1 bung in each exhaust pipe so you can independently check each cylinder. But if you don't want to get that deep into it, measure just the rear cylinder and adjust your rear VE table for perfection. Then copy and paste the complete rear VE map table to the front cylinder. That will be plenty close for what we are looking for.
     
  8. jdaws

    jdaws Active Member

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    As soon as the weather gets better I am going to do some seat of the pants tuning. I figure I need to add fuel in the acceleration and full throttle modes. I would think the idle and steady cruise modes should be close to stage-1 settings. I can add fuel to the decel mode also with the gen.3
    I will report back and let you all know the results.
    I'm alway open for suggestions.
    Thanks for the replies and suggestions.
     
  9. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Not trying to give you a hard time but why wouldn't a performance cam increase the engines volumetric efficiency at cruise speeds also? Your saying the cams will increase the engines ability to be an air pump only at wide open throttle, and that is not true.

    But none the less, it sounds like you have a good plan in place. I am sure everything will go as planned but when in doubt, go a little extra rich than lean. Yes, you will use a little more fuel and you MPG will drop but the engine will be happier. It takes a lot to be toooo toooo Rich....:p
     
  10. jdaws

    jdaws Active Member

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    Yea, that would make sense.
    I'm looking forward to getting her dialed!:D