Stage 1 Dyno Results

Discussion in 'Dyno Runs' started by Fatboy 07, May 7, 2009.

  1. Fatboy 07

    Fatboy 07 Member

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    One of my riding buddies in our club has just installed the Vance & Hines Classic slip-on mufflers, Arlen Ness "Big Sucker" air cleaner, and a Power Commander PC III USB on his 2008 Ultra Classic bike and his dyno results were - 60 hp and 80 ftlbs of torque.

    Work and dyno was performed by a well respected HD master mechanic who has his own shop here in Oregon.

    I was under the impression that this engine came stock with around 63hp and torque numbers in the high 70's. Question I have is what could be causing the low dyno numbers.

    I have a 2007 FLSTF with the V&H 2 into 1 pipes with the PCIII USB, as well as the Big Sucker air cleaner and mine dynoed out at 76hp and 90ftlbs of torque with the same mechanic performing the installation.

    Really none of my business, just very curious why the low results.

    Roger
     
  2. Bud White

    Bud White Well-Known Member Retired Moderators

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    harleys figures are crankshaft not rear wheel
     
  3. R. Lewis

    R. Lewis Senior Member Retired Moderators

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    Was the 2 scoots dyno'd before any mods?
     
  4. Fatboy 07

    Fatboy 07 Member

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    Hi Bud! I am fully aware that Harley's posted numbers are at the crank and not the loaded rear wheel numbers. But the numbers that he obtained seem awefully low to me.

    No, Lewis, there was not any baseline numbers obtained prior to the final dynoed results. I would not have been happy about that either if this would have been my scoot.

    I was just wondering if you guys may have any idea what would cause the numbers to be so low for a 96" stage 1 upgrade. I initially thought maybe the mufflers did not have enough back pressure. His Torque curve was also way more ragged than mine was. Actually to the extent that I ask him if he could feel that while riding. He said no.

    Thanks guys for your responses.

    Roger
     
  5. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    Every MoCo dyno chart I have seen clearly indicate the measurement of rear wheel TQ and HP; there are tons of them in the SE Performance catalog.

    The Dynas and Softails don't make as much TQ/HP as the Touring models in stock trim. Dynas and Softails, on average, will make high 60sHP/low 80sTQ in stock trim. So, the 76HP/9TQ numbers from the '07 Fatboy are good numbers; can't expect much better.

    The touring models make more power than the Dynas/Softails due to the exhaust system. FLH's have a very large volume in the exhaust system which allows the exhaust to exit freely, without restriction and the crossover also helps.

    I don't know exactly how much better the FLs should perform in stock trim but in Stage I trim, they should perform equal to the Dynas and Softails.

    So, the 60HP/80TQ numbers for the '08 Ultra Classic are low; they shoud be at least as good as the Fatboy's numbers. You could lay some off on the pipes; the 2:1 would perform better but a re-tune might be in order.
     
  6. Fatboy 07

    Fatboy 07 Member

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    Thanks dolt and Smitty!

    Glider/Hobbit, do you guys have any input on the possibly why this 08 Ultra dynoed so low with the stage 1 setup that was installed. I spoke with my friend (owner of the scoot) and he said he took the bike back to the shop to exchange the V&H basic slip-on mufflers for a different set because he said they put on the wrong ones initially. The new ones are also V&H slip-ons only with a different sound and replaceable packing in lieu of the basic baffle. Anyway that is the way I understood him.

    After changing the mufflers again, they re-dynoed it and the new numbers were 61.8hp and 78.??ftlbs of torque.

    Any ideas? Maybe just a lemon? Oh, by the way, these numbers are rear wheel numbers and not crankshaft numbers.

    Thanks for any input.

    Roger
     
  7. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    That's what I said; in stock trim. However, once upgraded, the B engine should perform on par with the A engine. There is some parasitic loss of power attributed to balancing mechanism but it is marginal.

    Could be the dyno itself needs calibrating; I would let another tuner take a crack at it. If the numbers don't improve on another dyno, a compression test might show something.
     
  8. Bud White

    Bud White Well-Known Member Retired Moderators

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    Its about 3% parasitic loss so yes marginal .. as said once a B is hopped up some it will be where the A started at
     
  9. Fatboy 07

    Fatboy 07 Member

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    (Its about 3% parasitic loss so yes marginal .. as said once a B is hopped up some it will be where the A started at )

    Bud, I am not sure where you are getting your information regarding your statement - i.e. "as said once a B is hopped up some it will be where the A started. I have a 96B in my 2007 Fatboy and I gained about 15% increase in the horsepower and the torque from baselind stock, and I am quite sure that the A motor does not start at that.

    As stated previously, I have the V&H 2 into 1 exhaust system with the PCIII USB and the Arlen Ness big sucker air cleaner and that is the extent of my stage 1 "hopped up".

    Roger
     
  10. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    Not trying to stir the pot but perhaps Bud has been looking at the MoCo's own dyno charts. However, it is not as simple as the Bs vs the As. Like I posted previously, the Dynas (B engine) and the Softails (A engine) do not perform as well as the touring models (B engine). The parasitic loss to the B balancers is negligible.

    As you know, the TC heads were much improved in '06, particularly the exhaust side. The touring bike exhaust system takes full advantage of the improved head flow; that's where the increased preformance comes from.

    Now, you can discount the MoCo figures if you want but I think the dyno will bear them out. I would never turn my bike over to a tuner without a baseline run; you need to know where you started.

    The numbers for the FL that you posted for your friend are low for an FL model in stock trim, much less a Stage I upgrade. There is something in the mix that we don't know or there is something wrong with the bike. His numbers are lower than the numbers the MoCo dyno shows for an FL in stock trim.

    I don't know how to post the dyno charts or I would include them in the post. The charts do not show a Stage I Dyna/Softail performng as well as a Stage I FL model but I am sure the upgrades used all MoCo parts. An A engine can perform as well as a B engine with the right Stage I compenents.

    JHMO