Some LEDs Dead in Harley Mirror with Running Lights

Discussion in 'Touring Models' started by sachssci, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. sachssci

    sachssci New Member

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    Please help!

    I have Harley Parts 92059-07A installed on my '05 Road King Classic. These are "Mirror with Auxiliary Running Light and Directional Indicator - Chrome."

    Some but not all of the LEDs on one of the mirrors have died, so it looks pretty bad.

    I contacted a Harley dealer, but they said they couldn't fix them. So they want me to put out another $300 to replace both mirrors.

    Can you direct me to a place, preferably near Los Angeles, who might be able to get the dead LEDs replaced or working again?

    Thanks very much.
     
  2. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Welcome to the Forum, If you can take the lights apart you should be able to test and or replace the LED that are bad, I bet Radio Shack sells them
     
  3. RibEye

    RibEye Junior Member Contributor

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    You arel likely looking at high intensity LEDs, probably surface mounted. The Shack won't likely have them, but, Digikey likely will, if you can determine what they are.

    Here is what we know:
    • Not all are out, so they are not in series
    • Since they are parallel-wired, unless they are supplied by a constant current source or individual limiting resistors, they are current-limited by a single resistance. Once you lose one LED, current and voltage to the rest goes up. They will all wink out one by one from overstress
    • If, being in parallel, each one has a single limiting resistor (or built-in), loss of one will not overstress the others in the array.

    It is possible that these are not designed to come apart for service. Be prepared to have to break something to get in. Hence, you will have to find a trustworthy means to get them to stay closed up, when/if successfully repaired.

    Enjoy,
    Rich P
     
  4. horizonchaser

    horizonchaser Senior Member Contributor

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    That is discouraging. I have the same mirrors with the built in led directionals ( chrome like yours). The are working just fine and I thought those LED's would last a long time. Now I'm not so confident. Hope you get your problem resolved.
     
  5. R_W_B

    R_W_B Senior Member

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    You might want to check out the load limiter circuit that either came with the mirrors or with the kit. LEDs don't burn out through normal use, they only get dimer with extended use (not likely on signals).

    The only thing that will burn them out is excess line current.
     
  6. gusotto

    gusotto Junior Member

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    Have the same thing in my Electro-Glo wheel covers.
    The installation sheet will list the parts and PN, "if" they can be ordered and replaced.
    I have a small group on each side. Lucky they are low and only seen at night.
    I'm going to live with them, just the way they are.
    If I try replacing, I'll just damage the other working lights.
     
  7. RibEye

    RibEye Junior Member Contributor

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    There are many contributors to LED failure, most of which are design and manufacturing related. Turn signals typically use short burst of higher current than LEDs can take for prolonged periods. Turn signals are also typically used in lower intensity when not flashing a signal. If flashing stops for any reason while in high intensity output mode, LEDs could drop out.

    If high current LEDs are inadequately provided with heat dissipation (air flow and/or heatsinking), they will drop out over time (design issue). If incorrectly applied (design issue relating to curent and voltage limiting) LEDs can drop out over time. LED die and/or electrical bonding can be faulty (bad manufacturing). Solder joints can fail (fracturing due to poor manufacturing or high vibration).

    Normal LED operation at around 20 mA should result in seriously long life. However, turn signal applications typically use bursts of 10 times that (or more). As long as on time is short, relative to off time (duty cycle), so that LED heating remains within acceptable range for the parts, life should be also fine, as long as necessary heat dissipation is provided for. LEDs will generate heat at higher currents. Notice LED lamps in traffic signals or big rig or bus tail lights. Seeing individual LEDs drop out is not rare at all.

    LEDs hate to be reverse biased, even for short periods. They also will not like to see spikes from noisey power sources.

    Sorry for the treatise. I just wanted everyone to know that LEDs are not ideal light sources. They are better than incandescents, if applied correctly, but they do have shortcomings.

    Good luck,
    Rich P

    I have these on my RKC. They have been very reliable so far. If you need to replace yours, and don't want to go with what have already been shown to be unreliable, try these: Mirror Kits Signal Mirrors® - Mirror Systems
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. R_W_B

    R_W_B Senior Member

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    Oh ok, thanks for the info RibEye, always ready to learn new stuff. I was under the impression that these LED kits came with load equalizers (resistor addon) to lower the line current since the LEDs are brighter with less current than the incandescants needed.

    In fact I thought without the accompaning equalizers they would burn out in short order.
     
  9. RibEye

    RibEye Junior Member Contributor

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    I could be wrong, but, I believe that the load equalizers supplied with LED turn signal kits are to provide a resistor across the lines to the turn signals, to present a higher load to the turn signal supply, so it appears that a normal set of turn signals is attached, so the signal supply does not get confused. LED signals take significantly less current to operate than normal incandescents.

    With turn signal mirrors, no load equalizers are required since the necessary load is supplied by the normal turn signals. The signals in the mirrors are supplemental to the ones in the normal places. If the normal ones are removed in favor of the ones in the mirrors, you will need load equalizers.

    Enjoy,
    Rich P
     
  10. NEWHD74FAN

    NEWHD74FAN Experienced Member Retired Moderators

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    RibEye / Rich is right on...LED's will last a long time if proper circuit design and current limiting is provided. Load equalizer resistor should not be necessary if LED's system supplements incandescent ones as he stated. Frankly, inspect the failed ones and determine the type replacement...if SMT (Surface Mount Type replacing them will be a challenge for the DIYer, but if they are thru-hole type, check the brightness of the others that are intact...but finding nearest equivalent replacement will still be a bit of a challenge.

    Use a DMM on lowest ohm setting and see how bright it will light (observing polarity), then check ones that have nearest package size and use DMM to see if it can duplicate approx. the same brightness (it will be under driven, but should give you "relative brightness and current sensitivity to get close to same brightness and color)...best you can do...short of buying whole new assembly (HD or OEM probably would not provide part list/bill of material detailed enough to service, even if they "wanted" to).