Solenoid 'chatter' but what to do next ?

[RetroRocker]

As far as jumping the bike wiring, take a piece of 14 gauge wire and go from the POS on the battery to the small terminal on the solenoid that has the green wire on it now after unplugging that wire.

... This particular jump I did and reported a few posts back. (Yes, I know, this is getting to be a long thread :s). The result of this was the same solenoid chatter.

As far as jumping from the POS battery terminal to the 'out' side of the solenoid goes, I did try to do this from the out terminal but by accessing it from inside the solenoid cover (nothing happened). However I don't think this is probably a genuine result because I think I'm right in saying that other things happen at the far end of the solenoid shaft when the solenoid pulls in.

This is starting to look like a starter and / or solenoid failure. Any other ideas gratefully received but I think it's getting very close to visiting the repair shop.

cheers

RR






Well now this bike really is in trouble ! It has gone from sublime to ridiculous and now plain crazy !
I just reassembled the solenoid and thought I'd just try somemore start cranking ... I get some solenoid chatter which stops... followed by veeeery sloooow cranking ... more solenoid chatter ... bit more slow cranking. I'm sure you get the picture.

THEN I GET SMOKE !!!

but it's coming out of the union of the clutch cable with the left handlebar lever !!!

OK, that's it. This bike is off to the repair shop for some serious hands on diagnostics. I'm out of my depth. I will post back to let you know what is uncovered because this has become bizarre :newsmile030:

cheers

RR

 

[glider]

THEN I GET SMOKE !!!
but it's coming out of the union of the clutch cable with the left handlebar lever !!!

Bad ground/ground cable somewhere on the bike (NEG cable) and the clutch cable is returning the ground for the circuits. This would explain your starting problems and the chatter too.

Lubing Clutch Cable Too Often? - Harley Davidson Community

Sometimes it takes a while to get all the info out.

Try this.... use a battery jumper cable and attach one end to the NEG terminal on the battery and the other end to a good ground on the motor and try to start it up.

 

[Hoople]

If it turns out to be that Glider, you win the Diagnostic Award for the Year. Your right, it sure could be that. Your a deep thinker, I would have never guessed.

 

[glider]

Some times it just takes some deep thinking and adding things together to come up with the answer but it sure looks like this is the problem to me from the symptoms described.
Been diagnosing and working on these tractors for a long time and have seen some strange things happening.

 

[fin_676]

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and wondering about everything
im just guessing at this point because im not to aquinted with the touring models but is there some earth straps between the engine and frame at some point with the engine being rubber mounted there there would be little or no earth return

Brian

 

[glider]

The NEG comes from the engine and goes to a lug in front of the battery mounted to the frame and from there it picks up another short NEG lead to the battery. There's more contact points on this bike and some other touring bikes than most other models that can cause a problem like this. Some contact points/cable connections between two cables are overlooked like this one when troubleshooting a problem.

 

[fin_676]

Thanks for that wee bit of info glider im just so used to solid mounted engines that it just occured to me that the earth return from the engine would not just flow through the engine mounting bolts due to the rubber mounts
now im a wee bit wiser thanks

Brian

 

[glider]

Oh the suspense is killing me :lolrolling

 

[Hoople]

Glider, that's what bugs me most about internet troubleshooting. Sometimes you never do find out what really fixes it..

But your diagnosis is HOT on the trail! :s

 

[RetroRocker]

Oh the suspense is killing me :lolrolling

... Ok, Ok point taken :s but seriously, Glider ... 'hats off' to you ... absolutely correct, there IS a breakdown of the earth link between motor and frame.
I used your tip of jumping battery NEG to a motor earth and the bike started normally, which is pretty conclusive.
The only thing I would say though is that you did have ALL the information as it unfolded and I do realise how much harder it must be to come up with ideas when you don't have the bike in front of you. The point at which I actually got 'smoke' from the handlebar end of the clutch cable was informed at the point it was first seen. I suspect this was only later down the line because until that point I had never held onto the starter for very long, for obvious reasons, but as I got more intent on finding the problem the starter pushes became longer, hence 'smoke'. What I've since discovered is that the metal end to the clutch cable at the handelbar end can go from cold to untouchable in about 3 to 4 seconds !!! ... with this newly defined 'earthing strap'.
The bike is now in a repair shop. I will return to let you all know the exact nature of this earthing breakdown ... corrosion, broken cable or whatever might yet unfold.

all the best, genuine thanks to all the guys who have contributed to this ... it really is appreciated.

RR