shifting and neutral problems

Discussion in 'Transmission' started by caniggia, May 1, 2009.

  1. caniggia

    caniggia Member

    13
    11
    0
    Hello,

    My name is Pawel, I'm from Poland, new here.

    I have problems with clutch in my 1998 heritage softail.
    Very difficult to find neutral, even with little rev up.
    very easy if engine off.

    I have hydraulic clutch kit.
    Throwout bearing is OK, changed friction plates and metal plates to Barnett ones.
    Changed oil with 3 different ones, HD Primary, 10w40 motorcycle oil, redline MTL, without success, I adjusted clutch with no turn out, 1/2 turn aot, one turn out, still no help.

    I can very easy rotate inner hub with fingers when clutch is pulled.
    Very easy shifting when bike is not running, oil in tranny is shockproof heavy, was before 75w90 synthetic. still this same.

    Also I checkek for notches on hubs, no one is there.

    i also tried to remove damper spring from clutch due all performance clutches doesn't have them, still no help.

    I also use m6 hayden tensioner, but still with no luck.

    Fluid levels are ok, no overfill.

    Primary chain seems to be tensioned same in every position when rotating engine/clutch.

    One think I've seen, when plates are removed, if I rotate inner hub, outer seems to not rotating center,looks like it rotating not centered or so,
    I checked then tranny mainshaft, but is has no freeplay, and is centered. I've seen this same on friends twincam, but he had no problem with neutral.

    last think that i haven't checked is bearing in outer hub (bike has 30k miles).

    it was very easy to find out neutral till i burned plates due hydraulic clutch fluid went out, since this time changing everythink, with no luck.

    Please give some advice,

    Greetings
    Pawel.
     
  2. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    4,633
    83
    100
    Pawel,

    Welcome to the Forum. There is lots of great info here on the site and in the heads of your fellow members.

    On the problem you mentioned, do you have a HD Factory Service Manual covering your bike model and year? Is the problem you are describing related to actually finding neutral or having the neutral light come on when in neutral?

    Here is some reference info from the Self-help pages. See if these match the precedures you used:

    Clutch Plate Installation - Harley Davidson Community

    TQ
     
  3. caniggia

    caniggia Member

    13
    11
    0
    Hi,

    I do have manual, we normally do service for customers, but this is first situation, hopefully with my bike, not the customer, that i can't get idea...

    I also pre soaked plated like in barnett instruction.
    today after few miles riding, it's able when i little rev up to 1500rpm.

    Bike is running ide at 650-700, when it;s set to 1000 is much easier, but it's not as it should.


    Pawel.
     
  4. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    4,633
    83
    100
    OK, so it sounds like you are actually having trouble getting the bike to find and stay in neutral is that correct? You are not just talking about the neutral light (which would likely be the switch), but rather actual neutral on the bike, correct?

    On the idle issue, I think you have it set too low. I have a '91 Dyna with a CV40 carb, and an '03 UC that is EFI. The manuals for BOTH bikes call for the idle to be 1,000-1,050 rpm.

    TQ
     
  5. caniggia

    caniggia Member

    13
    11
    0
    Yes, I'm talking about real neutral, neutral light works OK.

    Bartett plates are looking from both sides, so seems no matter whitch side they are intsalled (according instruction that link is above).

    As I wrote above it's not RPM problem, when I do 1000 rpm, i still need to little rev up,
    but not slowly, this doesn't help. Must be quick move with throttle, so it looks like then
    plates are getting to be not sticked or similar effect is happening.

    What I'm gonna try finally, that bearing in clutch hub. What I've seen with bike on stand, outer hub is not rotating center of inner hub, so plates are moving inside when
    clutch is pulled.

    ooo, i found name of this effect what i mean - jerking. people recommnd install kind of plastic shims (tamer) or so. I don;t know what that execly is.



    Greetings
    Pawel.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2009
  6. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    4,633
    83
    100
    Pawel,

    After re-reading the original post, the quote above may be the most telling piece of info. Sounds like the hydraulic fluid leaked out of the clutch side forcing you or someone to ride the bike with no clutch burning up the clutch plates. This situation probably put significant shock loading on the tranny too. I would suggest that you pull the top cover on the tranny and make sure that the shifter pawl and shifter forks are not damaged. Then go through all the adjustment procedures to make sure the shifter cam assembly and the rest of the shifting mechanism are adjusted correctly.

    TQ
     
  7. caniggia

    caniggia Member

    13
    11
    0
    Hi,

    Thanks for Your answer, hydraulic fluid leak was outside due wrong cable installation.
    tranny oil is clear, but primary oil is getting contamined very fast with kind of grase or very very small metal Filings. I'm putting currently redline mtl which is red, but after 100km is not black, but it's not red. I dont think there is leak from engine, due no oil is removing from engine tank, also there is not gettin more in primary.

    Currently I checked, and there's big freeplay between basket and hub. Seems bearing damage. Probably grease rom bearing is contamining oil and fillings are comming out of one to. I'll disassembly clutch at monday and anyway replace bearing, let's see.

    tranny seems to be OK, on stand gears get in perfectly, also with engine not running.

    Greetings
    Pawel.
     
  8. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    4,633
    83
    100
    OK, so you think the main bearing in the clutch basket (actually pressed in the clutch shell) may be damaged, or the mainshaft bearing in the inner primary?

    TQ
     
  9. caniggia

    caniggia Member

    13
    11
    0
    I mean bearing in clutch shell.
    I found effect name in english of this what I can see:

    When rotating inner hub (without clutch plates), the basket - clutch shell is wiggling.
    I've seen an antoehr bike it was wiggling, but there was no neutral problem, maybe it's depending how much "wiggling" there is. As hub is pushed into shell bearing, to they should rotate without wiggling as i think.

    Greetings
    Pawel.

    Hi again,

    some research today... Bearing is OK, but - it's turning in clutch shell.
    That was the reason for basket freeplay, oil was contamined with aluminium. We'll fix it tommorow and I'll let know for future. Hope it's finall damage and I'll find neutral again:)

    Pawel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2009
  10. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

    4,633
    83
    100
    Fix? Does this mean you have to replace the clutch shell? To me, that is the only "fix" possible if the bearing somehow is turning in the shell. I can't really understand how that could happen without the bearing being damaged/locked up? You are sure the bearing is OK? At least wash it out very thoroughly with cleaning solvent/mineral spirits, and then rotate it carefully and slowly to make sure it is smooth all the way around.

    TQ