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Selling/ No Title

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Pezzy

Member
Hi all.

They say there's a first time for everything, right? Well maybe some of you out there have done this and can give some advice.

Have any of you ever had a vehicle (motorcycle, car, truck....) and made a sale through a personal deal without having the title first?

I myself have never done this. Whether it was a car or bike, it was only after I had paid off the loan and had the title did I sell or trade-in.

I have a 2011 Harley and am two years into paying off a five year loan with HDFS. I want to sell, but, not as a trade-in to a Harley dealership for another bike.

As many of you probably know, you can usually get more money through a personal deal than you can selling/ trading into a dealership. I looked up my bike on Kelly Blue Book & NADA and I know what I should be able to get for it.

I talked to an HDFS rep on the phone, and as you might already be aware, Harley has some kind of program (I forget the "name", something like Rider to rider) where you use the services of a participating dealership to sell your bike to a private party (as in a "personal deal"). Harley will smooth the process for you and take care of all the paperwork. However, there's a catch.......

You can't sell the bike for the best possible asking price you could get (Meaning: let's say the person you were selling it to was willing to pay what Kelly Blue Book/ NADA said). Harley will only sell it to the private party for whatever you have left to pay on the remainder of your loan. Basically: It's like you're not allowed to make a profit.

I looked at the going price for my make/ year/ model, and I could possibly get more for it than I currently owe on it.

But when selling on a private party personal deal.....are people willing to do this when the seller doesn't have the title in their possession? There's got to be some heavy-duty trust going on here, eh?

Any of you ever done this? Sell a vehicle without having the title?

Thanks for any info or suggestions.
Pez
 
Pezzy said:
Hi all.

They say there's a first time for everything, right? Well maybe some of you out there have done this and can give some advice.

Have any of you ever had a vehicle (motorcycle, car, truck....) and made a sale through a personal deal without having the title first?

I myself have never done this. Whether it was a car or bike, it was only after I had paid off the loan and had the title did I sell or trade-in.

I have a 2011 Harley and am two years into paying off a five year loan with HDFS. I want to sell, but, not as a trade-in to a Harley dealership for another bike.

As many of you probably know, you can usually get more money through a personal deal than you can selling/ trading into a dealership. I looked up my bike on Kelly Blue Book & NADA and I know what I should be able to get for it.

I talked to an HDFS rep on the phone, and as you might already be aware, Harley has some kind of program (I forget the "name", something like Rider to rider) where you use the services of a participating dealership to sell your bike to a private party (as in a "personal deal"). Harley will smooth the process for you and take care of all the paperwork. However, there's a catch.......

You can't sell the bike for the best possible asking price you could get (Meaning: let's say the person you were selling it to was willing to pay what Kelly Blue Book/ NADA said). Harley will only sell it to the private party for whatever you have left to pay on the remainder of your loan. Basically: It's like you're not allowed to make a profit.

I looked at the going price for my make/ year/ model, and I could possibly get more for it than I currently owe on it.

But when selling on a private party personal deal.....are people willing to do this when the seller doesn't have the title in their possession? There's got to be some heavy-duty trust going on here, eh?

Any of you ever done this? Sell a vehicle without having the title?

Thanks for any info or suggestions.
Pez
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You have the title but it is NOT Free and Clear...

You can take the DEAL to a State license agency and they Will help you out. They can tell you what you need to do... Your title will have a pay-off involved...

BOTH seller and Buyer needs to go there and do the transaction... The title needs to be paid off to your lender and working with your State License Agency... the license people will be a way to do it. go ask one.

signed....BUBBIE
 
Pezzy,

As Bubbie said, the state can probably point you in the right direction to get it titled. It could be quite a long process. It is interesting what you say about HDFS, doesn't sound so good to me unless you really need to unload the bike.

Until about 1974 Al used to be a bill of sale state where no title was required for a motor vehicle purchase. I bought a 69 Datsun 1600 roadster for $300, not title. It took me about 4 months to complete all the paperwork. The bill of sale and VIN went up to Montgomery where they researched it and I finally got clear title to it. Good luck, maybe the process is quicker these days.
 
I guess I don't quite understand what the problem is. The seller is asking for the buyer to satisfy the original loan, plus an amount that is agreeable to both seller and buyer. HDFS only cares that the buyer satisfies the loan amount, either with cash or by having sufficient credit. Whatever deal the seller has with the buyer is not something HDFS needs to know about. If I were the buyer I would hold the amount that is over the loan settlement, and pay it once the title had been transferred. As was originally stated there is a certain amount of trust that has to be present.
 
Purchasing and selling vehicles without physically having the title is common practice nowadays. Most if not all financed vehicle will have the original title held by the loaning bank All that is needed is a bill of sale from the state the bike will be registered in by the new owner. As the seller, you will need to sign this "transfer of ownership" and the buyer MUST issue a bank certified check with the vin number PRINTED on the bank check. Acceptance (depositing/cashing) the check makes it a legally binding contract where the owner is responsible for A: releasing the vehicle to the buyer and B: paying of the balance if any on the original loan if one still exists. The lender that holds the title will then release the lien rights and the title will be mailed to the original owner. He/she then just simply has to sign the back of the transfer of ownership section of the original title and mail/ give it to the new owner. Bring the bill of sale, title abd proof of insurance if required in your state to the motor vehicle department and that's it. I've bought and sold a few bikes in this manner and never had a problem. Yes, there is a trust factor involved but as a buyer the key thing to remember is to only use bank issued checks with the vin number on it, again printed not hand written. I have no idea about the HDFS program but if completing a private sale, i hope that helps explain the process a little better. :s
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HDDon said:
I guess I don't quite understand what the problem is. The seller is asking for the buyer to satisfy the original loan, plus an amount that is agreeable to both seller and buyer. HDFS only cares that the buyer satisfies the loan amount, either with cash or by having sufficient credit. Whatever deal the seller has with the buyer is not something HDFS needs to know about. If I were the buyer I would hold the amount that is over the loan settlement, and pay it once the title had been transferred. As was originally stated there is a certain amount of trust that has to be present.
Click to expand...

I like this idea best. Negotiate the best price possible with the seller, then let HDFS do all the paperwork thinking that you're simply paying off the loan. The amount over the loan payoff can still be specified in some type of legal document, I'm sure, that HDFS doesn't even need to know about. Probably be able to download something off the internet or your state's Motor Vehicle website.
 
Dr. Dolittle said:
I like this idea best. Negotiate the best price possible with the seller, then let HDFS do all the paperwork thinking that you're simply paying off the loan. The amount over the loan payoff can still be specified in some type of legal document, I'm sure, that HDFS doesn't even need to know about. Probably be able to download something off the internet or your state's Motor Vehicle website.
Click to expand...

HD will not let you get involved with the pricing...
i tried this up in Wa. when I had my trade OR could sell it... I told them I had a buyer...... They would NOT allow ME to sell it thru them, Even though they controlled the deal...

They had to have CLEAR title rights and the sale $$$$ amount was theirs to determine...

I ended up doing it Al's way and it worked out fine...

You won't get HD to get your top dollar... Plus they take a big amount of commission....

I took my total deal to another HD dealer buying my new 2000 FXDS there and selling my bike Private (Just like BigAl66 says)


I did Loose my Trade-in Tax Credits though.... But the Higher private sales price made up for that.

signed....BUBBIE
 
There is nothing stopping you and the guy that wants to buy the bike from striking a deal in cash to enclude the Harley Loan deal. Moola + Harley loan= Happy camper
 
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