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Self Centering Steering Head not self centering

Hoopie,

You didn't put that in your last post. I already have replaced the swing arm pivot bolt and bushings with the Glide Pro system. No more wobbles.

The current problem is nothing like the bagger wobbles I had with the stock configuration. I made those upgrades some 30K ago and have only been having the current problem for a couple months. But the two issues are night and day different.

I still have the setup I used to do the alignment, I think I got the directions from the Glide Pro web site. It used laser levels to check the alignment and worked great. I guess it would not hurt to recheck it, just a little time consuming but not hard.

Bearings and/or races would make sense given the problem and the miles on the bike. I'll start there I suppose.
 
I agree to your point that there are two different wobbles - I also wrote about my experiences a while back (I have not yet fixed the 'FLH wobble' on my scoot, but will do so this winter). The other (real) wobble which it sounds like you are experiencing I believe is connected to a combination of a) steep neck angle, b) light load on he front wheel at speed particularly when running a windscreen, and c) the alignment Hoople is pointing out. Loose or worn neck bearings surely makes matters worse...
Hoople, I would really appreciate your description on how to perform accurate alignment. I've done some attempts, but must admit I have not succeded in sighting vertical together with longitudinal (offset and angle) alignment...
A long winter is coming and I might as well do something useful:)
 
Would you have a parts manual for your bike and can you upload a few pages? There are some frame/engine related parts & exploded views I would like to see.

Elmosac, Would you have a parts manual for your bike and can you upload a few pages? There are some frame/engine related parts & exploded views I would like to see.

I take it you really want to fix your issue.
 
Hoople, I would really appreciate your description on how to perform accurate alignment. I've done some attempts, but must admit I have not succeded in sighting vertical together with longitudinal (offset and angle) alignment...
A long winter is coming and I might as well do something useful:)

Yes, the vertical rotor alignment is hard to perform correctly. I cheat and use a good old fashion magnetic Caster/Camber gauge. It clamps nice and square to each rotor and you can get repeatable results of how vertical each rotor is.

After trying several different ways I finally placed a pair of eye hooks in the ceiling joists about 10 feet apart from each other. A strap will go from each eye hook to each front fork leg (or frame,rear shock etc) . I then adjust and tighten each strap to get the bike at TRUE vertical with the bars in a STRAIGHT ahead position.

Getting the bars in True forward straight ahead position is important and is a fundamental starting point for alignment. Once the bike is strapped & set vertical and straight, I use the magnetic gauge & engine turnbuckle to achieve rotor true front to rear. Following that 8' light tubes are used to check wheel tracking and wheel offset.

Note: On my Dyna I have a rear hollow Axle which I use to my advantage to perform my rear wheel alignment. I won't go into detail because most don't have hollow axles. But once the bike is truly Vertical and the bars are truly pointed straight using the tie straps, I am sure you can now see a world of ways open up on how to perform an alignment.

Let me know if your bike has a rear hollow axle. I can give you a bag of tricks if you do.
 

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Comment on vertical alignment. The steering being straight is vital to accurate results, however, sweating bullets to get the bike perfectly vertical does not seem to be important to me. What I shoot for is the same reading on the front and rear disks, then the wheels are aligned vertically (paralell) with each other whether the frame is perfectly erect at the time or not.

For example, if while sitting on the maintenance stand I get the front and rear disks to both show -0.2 degrees, they are aligned with each other and the bike just wasn't perfectly level to start. Irregularity in the floor, perhaps. Is that reasonable, or should I go to more trouble to get a zero reference at one of the wheels?
 
For example, if while sitting on the maintenance stand I get the front and rear disks to both show -0.2 degrees, they are aligned with each other and the bike just wasn't perfectly level to start. Irregularity in the floor, perhaps. Is that reasonable,

Yes I agree with that. If for example you were to measure 2 degrees of camber on the rear rotor and 2 degrees on the front rotor, then yes the two rotors "are vertical" with respect to each other. But,, the important point to remember is that (at least on Dyna) there is a lot of positive caster in the front fork. Due to that excessive caster (caster being the front wheel extended forward as in an American Chopper bike) the front wheel actually "flops" to the side when you turn the bars, making the front rotor "un-vertical" to the rear rotor just due to steering geometry alone.

A good example of the front wheels flopping when you turn is when you look at the front end of a 1/4 fuel dragster. At the end of the run when the driver turns the steering wheel, the front wheels flop to the side due to the extreme positive caster of the steering knuckles.
It is that flopping of the wheels that makes them "un-vertical" when looking at the front wheels as if they had brake rotors.

I realize I am taking this to an extreme but if your going to take the time to do it, you may as well shift all the possible accumulated errors in your favor. Therefore because these bikes do have a lot of caster the wheel will lean or flop to some degree when you turn. I therefore would try and keep the front wheel as straight forward as possible just to minimize the effect of having positive caster. The more positive Caster, the larger the turning radius of the vehicle will be and the more flop will take place. To me, the Touring models seem to have a lot less caster than Dyna frames so it becomes even less of an issue.

Trying to use something like a Condor front wheel chock did not work well at all for me and created a lot of frustration.

HD says to check the turn buckle adjustment from rotor to rotor. But you can also do what Jake @ Glide Pro does and that is first "true" the seat frame rails to "bubble level",, then reference that to the rear rotor only. It seems to do the job and chances are it is very close indeed with a lot less work.

There is no one perfect way.. As long as you understand what the objective is, add or remove steps along the way that you see fit.
 
Elmosac, Would you have a parts manual for your bike and can you upload a few pages? There are some frame/engine related parts & exploded views I would like to see.

I take it you really want to fix your issue.

Hoopie, here is a link to an online parts microfiche

Ronnie's Harley-Davidson's 2007 Harley-Davidson® Motorcycle FLHR ROAD KING® (FB)

I agree to your point that there are two different wobbles - I also wrote about my experiences a while back (I have not yet fixed the 'FLH wobble' on my scoot, but will do so this winter). The other (real) wobble which it sounds like you are experiencing I believe is connected to a combination of a) steep neck angle, b) light load on he front wheel at speed particularly when running a windscreen, and c) the alignment Hoople is pointing out. Loose or worn neck bearings surely makes matters worse...
Hoople, I would really appreciate your description on how to perform accurate alignment. I've done some attempts, but must admit I have not succeded in sighting vertical together with longitudinal (offset and angle) alignment...
A long winter is coming and I might as well do something useful:)

Karl,

Hopefully you are on the west coast and therefor get an extended riding season.

Isn't it getting close to the season for Aquivet and Lutafisk?

I get over to Norway a couple times a year on buisness. Beautiful country!

Elmo
 
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Hoople, hadn't heard about the frame tubes under the seat before, excellent. Sounds like that would also provide a reference to check if the fork tubes are clamped at exactly the same height.
 
btsom, Take a look at the alignment video Jakes has at his web site. I agree with most of what he has to say about how to perform alignment but what I have done is combine some of his information with some of my own ideas along with some of other peoples ideas and came up with a way that works for me. As I said earlier, no 1 way is correct.

The key point to the entire topic is to look at the engine, transmission, rear fork and rear wheel as one tied together assembly, and the frame and front wheel as another complete assembly. Wheel offset, wheel parallelism & same line tracking all come into play plus the stiffness between the two assemblies.

When I really think about how counter-steering gets applied to a two wheel bike, it comes as no surprise how easily a tank slapper can happen above 15 mph.
 
Hoople
Thanks for sharing your obviously well-founded ideas with us, I will see how I can rig it up someting similar in my garage.
To answer your question; My tourer does not have a hollow axle - which makes me miss a few good ideas it sounds like.
I will try to get hold of something similar to your magnetic combination gauge.
Also, thanks for the tip on the Glide-pro page alignment video. Speaking of which, I like the Glide-pro approach better than the other bolt-on solutions...

Elmo
Good stuff! Sounds like you know the 'Norwegian experience' i.e eat caustic soda dipped fish and drink strong liquor. That lethal combination was invented by and for vikings, heh, heh.
The word Akevitt (Norwegian) = Aqua Vitae (Latin) = Uisge Beatha (Gaelic) = Whisky (Scottish) = Water of Life = pure enjoyment.
I am BTW located East - in Oslo to be more accurate. Possibly shorter riding season here, but then again we get proper summer temps... Where are you visiting when over here?
 
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