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Not to stir the pot, but you do not see this going on in the auto world. In that area the manufacture is trying to squeeze every last mile out of a gallon of gas. Yes there are people trying to turn their cars into the Fast and Furious but the masses buy a new vehicle put gas in and drive. So with all manufacturing there is a limit before self destruction and I would believe that most manufactures stay far on the conservative side of that limit.
That is why in my last post I stated that if OP is happy with the outcome of his decisions and the mods were properly performed and he likes the way his bike runs then it is a win for him.
 
Re: Question/Answer

:lolrolling:boxing:dude:drunk:devil:newsmile100: :panic :breakdance:small3d023::newsmile048::small3d026: :small3d011: :newsmile07::newsmile055:

MAN, Every one of these seem to work on this thread...:D

Keep the Shinny side UP...

signed....BUBBIE
 
Jeff not an opinion it's scientific fact, and there is loads on the Web and journals about it. I agree most like to richen the mixture but just blithely stating they are lean is incorrect, they are leaner they used to be agreed but dangerously lean NO, engine damaging lean again NO, even at 15 afr they are not damaging and your economy will go sky high With very little lack of performance. Blithely adding fuel without other alterations can also cause issue specially if the VE and spark tables are.not.altered correctly. So if.my opinion / fact is not appreciated I will as stated previously no longer comment on engine tuning or.what tuner flash is right, I will just happily thrash my HD knowing it's tuned correctly and running 14.6 afr with correct VE, spark and.so.forth and in closed loop is efficient and economic and put.of.closed loop is effective enough to destroy sports bikes upto 120/130
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Hobbit, no need to pick up your toys and go home, this thread and this forum is a learning experience for us all. Having said that, Harley themselves have said they set the scoots to run on the lean side so as to meet the EPA regulations. (their words not mine)

Now are they to lean so they'll burn a valve or burn a hole in a piston? Probably not, will running them on the upper end of a lean condition add more heat to the engine? the answer is absolutely. Can the added heat cause engine problems down the road? I believe the answer is yes.

These answers have been given by a lot smarter people than me and I respect their opinions. If most Harleys didn't exhibit lean conditions right out of the box, there wouldn't be a market for fuelers. Of course that's JMHO.
 
Not to stir the pot, but you do not see this going on in the auto world. In that area the manufacture is trying to squeeze every last mile out of a gallon of gas. Yes there are people trying to turn their cars into the Fast and Furious but the masses buy a new vehicle put gas in and drive. So with all manufacturing there is a limit before self destruction and I would believe that most manufactures stay far on the conservative side of that limit.
Finally someone else that gets this !!!

your bike is like mobile barometric computer making millions of adjustments in closed loop to keep the bike at the target AFR 14.6/7 (stoic)

Lean or Mean the AFR might be lean but the VE makes up for this , quick explanation i guess
AFR as we know is air to fuel ratio so closed loop is 14.6 parts to 1 air (Stoic - at atmosphreic conditions i.e. sea level)
VE as we know is Volumetric Efficiency of the motor - how much AFR you can cram in the swept capacity of the cylinder

the more efficient you make the motor - ie free up the intake so more air gets in you obviously need more fuel so without either adding more AFR (13.5 and so on ) your bike becomes lean BUT - you haven't altered the VE table in the ECM to compensate so its not aware that you made the motor more efficient, it still believes the motor is choked to high hell, so you tune on the DYNO or Smart tune on the race tuner, to get the best efficiency you can out the swept volume, once you've done this and got it as efficient as can be - you put the AFR back to Stoic and let the 02 sensors do there thing keeping everyone happy as you have a more efficient motor and more power and still keep the greenies happy as your running within the EPA controlled area of the map when your rumbling around town with your non EPA compliant exhaust and intake :D:s:p
and this is what the dealer flash takes into account its might not change the AFR able persay (it does it makes closed loop smaller :) ) but it alters the WOT, Accel fuel , start up , idle, RPMS, and best of all tells the ECM your engine is more efficient due to the open intake:newsmile07:

as for the heat your on an air cooled motor its gonna be warm but harley of old ran rich so we all got used to the cool lumpy idles, and oil on the drives, we then got marelli injection (aka basic manual EFI) then we got Delphi FI bit more sophisticated but still no 02 sensors , then came the Lan systems with 02 and the game changed again now we have the Can-bus stuff with body control modules and so on very very close to that of BMW and there no slouches with tech or luxury or high power and performance
 
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My brother in law left all of his Harleys bone stock and he used to run them up over 100,000 miles before he would get rid of them. He used to moan that they ran too darned hot and were too darned slow a lot of times though!! :lolrolling.
 
My brother in law left all of his Harleys bone stock and he used to run them up over 100,000 miles before he would get rid of them. He used to moan that they ran too darned hot and were too darned slow a lot of times though!! :lolrolling.

I guess he was not aware that a down shift is good for about 10 H.P. The hot is cause there is no rad......:sd
 
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