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New Lifter Question - SE High Cap Tappets

jwquinn

Member
So, my big upgrade project is about to start, as soon as I clean up this Christmas tree and light stuff. But that's another story.

My ride is a 2012 FLSTC and I've already installed the SE Stage 1 air kit, Rush slip-ons with a 1.75" baffle, and a Doebeck EFI.

I'm installing new cams (S&S 583), inner cam bearings, S&S Quickee Adjustable push rods, and at the last minute decided to install new lifters while I was in there. I went with SE High-Capacity lifters, which have 25% larger needle bearings, according to Harley.


I'm trying to find out the length of piston travel is inside the lifter. The instructions that came with lifters don't say. I stopped by the stealer and asked a tech (who likely went to the Moronica Motorcycle School) and he had no clue, and then told me he only installs stock lifters. :11: Okkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy then.

Has anyone installed these? Does anyone know where I might get those specs? Any help is appreciated - thanks.

- JQ
 
Most lifters have .200 travel. S&S quickee push rods are 32 threads per inch (tpi). Each flat = .005", 6 flats = 1 complete turn = .031". I adjusted my lifters (not S.E.) 3 1/2 complete turns or .105". The S&S sheet says 4 complete turns, but I prefer to not go as deep into the lifter. Count the flats on the female push rod, not the male adjuster.
I've not heard of S.E. "high capacity" lifters, the latest version I'm aware of are "C".

P.S. Put a LOT of oil on all of the pushrod tube o- rings, and seat them carefully and fully.
 
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Most lifters have .200 travel. S&S quickee push rods are 32 threads per inch (tpi). Each flat = .005", 6 flats = 1 complete turn = .031". I adjusted my lifters (not S.E.) 3 1/2 complete turns or .105". The S&S sheet says 4 complete turns, but I prefer to not go as deep into the lifter. Count the flats on the female push rod, not the male adjuster.
I've not heard of S.E. "high capacity" lifters, the latest version I'm aware of are "C".

P.S. Put a LOT of oil on all of the pushrod tube o- rings, and seat them carefully and fully.


Harley has a new Screaming Eagle #18572-13 performance lifter set based on the "C" lifters and also made in Mexico.

With the exception of the Comp #875, all are believed to have ~0.210" internal piston travel with a recommended preload of ~0.105" (although many mechanics report they tend to run a bit quieter set a little deeper than 0.105").
 
Jack and Breeze - thanks for the replies. The new lifters I have are the ones Jack pointed out, and I guess Harley decided to call them 'high capacity' for some odd reason.

I'm good with how the pushrods adjust - it's pretty straightforward. My big concern was extending them too much and causing some valve damage.

I agree with adding lots of oil on the O-rings. Never go in dry, as they say! Thanks again!
 
If you still have them out and handy, you can mike them with a micrometer or a good veneer caliper. I would measure all four and them take an average and use that as your "rule of thumb" from now on!!

Like Jack said above, I like to adjust a bit over half the travel of the piston on the adjustable PRs. I had 24tpi PRs in my UC TC, and I would adjust to 3 1/6 turns (three full turns and one flat).

Cheers,

TQ
 
With 24 per inch, You can go a full 4T but that is deep @ .166...
3.0 T is good for all I do...

I'd STRONGLY say (IMO) Don't use the HD lifters.... Get a set of 1023 gatermans or try to find a set of HD "B" stock lifters. I'd RE USE your old ones IF they were "B"'s.... BEFORE the HD ones that are probably "C"'s and lot of trouble reported..

I don't TRASH products Lightly... No reason to BUT Been Thar Done That.

LOTS of builders WON'T use HD's at all..... Just say NO to HD lifters unless they are the Hard to find "B"'s.

signed....BUBBIE
 
TQ - I haven't opened then engine yet, but I can mic the orig lifters once I do that. I think I'll be using .210 as a baseline though. Thanks.

Bubbie - I appreciate the info, unfortunately I already bought the new lifters from HD, and they are C's. I'll give them a shot and see how they work out. I'm pretty easy on my engine, and am generally at 4000 rpm or less, and I don't generally crank on the throttle when I'm accelerating through the gears.
I'm not sure what the stock lifters are on this model though. C's or B's - any ideas?

- JQ
 
From 1999 - 2001, Johnson-Hylift supplied lifters to Harley-Davidson...
Johnson-Hylift designed and produced a special piston and valve body
to work across the temp ranges and varying oil psi typically encountered
on a Harley engine. Since 2001, in a cost-savings move, HD has used
Delphi hydraulic lifters, which explains Harley's p/n change from
18538-99 to 18538-99A, and after some problems, a second Delphi lifter
was used, p/n 18538-99B. However, Delphi still did not use a 0.655"
hi-volume / hi-pressure plunger and valve body like those specifically
designed for Harley by Johnson-Hylift. After some research AMS learned
Delphi 18538-99B lifters bleed down rather quickly due to the
higher engine temps and heavy valve spring pressure found on most
Harley Twin Cam's. The oil reservoir inside the lifter is too small,
allowing the lifter to clatter, and likely causes many Twin-Cam bikes
to be noisy. Note: ALL lifters bleed off during operation and even
more-so when the bikes sits, engine off.

Tom at AMS has known Chet Starron, who owns Johnson-Hylift, for many
years. Chet put Tom in touch with the original engineer of the earlier HD
18538-99 lifters, which don't seem to be as noisy as those made by Delphi.
Working with Hylift' engineering staff, AMS modified a Johnson-Hylift lifter,
to accept a very precise check valve, a larger plunger that allows more oil
reservoir volume, and a ball seat that fits much tighter, yet has an oil feed
groove to allow more upper rocker box oiling. The result was a significantly
improved lifter, with a much bigger internal oil reservoir that will keep the
lifter/pushrod from bleeding too much and bottoming out. The bigger
reservoir maintains a cushion of oil inside. The improved ball seat ensures
better top-end rocker oiling and better pushrod tip fit.... all of which makes
for a quieter lifter.


AMS and Hylift have continued to develop this lifter, and today, we offer
3 versions of the AMS-Hylift lifter for Harley Twin Cam applications:

AMS A2313SE for stock and performance street bikes. This is our newest
and best lifter, with "Direct shot" oiling to the roller. Only $39.95 each

AMS A2313R for all out, hi-rev, hi-lift racing applications. $39.95

AMS A2313-002 this is a 0.002" oversized version of the AMS2313, for use
in cases with worn lifter bores. $39.95

We also have lifters for EVO applications - call for details. 1-800-210-8675.

We recommend using AMS-Adjustable Pushrods, or stock non-adjustable
pushrods with them... however other brand adjustable pushrods will work
too. We provide very detailed installation & pushrod adjustment info, so
even a first time DIYer can easily install AMS lifters with confidences.

There are many other things that can cause "lifter" noise - it can be
something as easy to fix as excessive roaker arm end play. In which
case our AMS Spring Steel Rocker Shims will solve the problem! ...or the
cause of the noices can be from more serious issues, like coil bind,
rocker to spring cap interference, spring cap to stems / guide length
interference, poor oiling, high lift cam profile causing loft, overheating motor,
wrong oil viscosity for ambient temperatures, aerated oil, low oil pressure,
gear drive backlash, worn drive chains, etc. However if you're convinced
you've eliminate all of these things, and the lifters still rattle, then the next
step is to a set AMS-Hylift Lifters. With their larger oil reservoirs, they will
usually lessen or eliminate the noise.

For more info give us a call at 1-800-210-8675. Here is some pretty good info I did not know:s
 
If the OP hasn't "unpackaged" the lifters, return them; the dealer will take them back. The "C" lifter is the OEM lifter from model year '10 up; manufacturing outsourced to Mexico. You have several options from the CompCams VThunder 850-1 lifters for about $60/set to your door up to $270 for a set of Woods Directional lifters or the new S&S Precision lifters. JMHO but the CompCams lifters are adequate for the OP's application. CYCO is also selling lifters; a new product line for them and the go for about $11/each. I don't know anything about them but use their gaskets and cam tensioner shoes; both quality products.

Best to work with .200" of plunger travel and set lifter preload at .120"-.130". At 32TPI, that would be about 4 turns. As usuals, JMHO.:s
 
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