new cam gears

Discussion in 'Engine, Fuel and Exhaust' started by Whateverr, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. Whateverr

    Whateverr Member

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    I have a 2001 Road King with 30K on it. I just had S&S cam gears put in it with 510 cams. The noise it makes the "clatter" is almost unbearable I took it back to my wrench and he said that's the noise it's suppose to make. He called S&S and they said it is doing exactly what it's suppose to do it's the slash between the gears that makes the "clatter" had I known it was going to be this bad I would have went with Harleys new cam chain kit that comes along with the new oil pump and shoes. Has anyone else had this done? Is the noise as bad on yall's. The scoot runs awesome and their are no issues with the performance just the noise I hate it. Thanks for any replies or suggestions.
     
  2. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Yep. That is one of the issues with the gear drive systems. The gears themselves have to be sized correctly so that there is the right amount of backlash. Too little, and they will whine. Too much and they will clatter (like noisy lifters). So I think that based on your description, you may have too much slop in the gear drive train.

    Now that all assumes that who ever did the installation measured the pinion drive runout!! That is crucial for the gear drive option.

    Check this out for the description on gear backlash:

    http://www.andrewsproducts.com/media/PDF/TwinCamGear-2007-later.pdf

    TQ
     
  3. Breeze3at

    Breeze3at Well-Known Member

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    TQ's infomation on measuring the crank runout is very important to the operation/noise. S&S recommends NOT installing gear drive cams if the crank runout exceeds posted amount.
    I rode my buddy's '01 that had S&S gear drive cams and gear noise was not pronounced.
     
  4. Whateverr

    Whateverr Member

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    Thanks for the info. The wrench who did the build has been in business here in southeast GA since the early 80's and his wait time is greater then the local Harley shop and he has worked on all of my Harley's matter of a fact he is the only one who will work on them he's a great guy that wouldn't turn it out unless it was right. I'm certain that the runout was there or he wouldn't have suggested the gear drive as I preferred the new H-D chain drive system they came out with to fix their previous mess at time of production. I took it back to him after the build and he said it's right. I just couldn't imagine anyone having to listen to that "clatter" and actually enjoy their ride... I CAN'T.
     
  5. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    I run gears in one of my bikes, a 95" 2005 B engine with ported heads, 190CCP and Andrews 44G cams. The gears don't make as much noise as the old Morse chain cam drive system. Set up properly, the lash between the inner and outer gears should be .0005"-.001"; some lash should be present for proper setup. Zero lash will result in whining gears, too much lash will make a "klacking" noise that is often mistaken for noisy lifters.

    You are flying blind if you don't know what your crank runout is. .003" is the general standard acceptable max runout for gears but I know guys running gear with more. Those installs required U/S or O/S gears to reduce noise to an acceptable level. A lot of techs check runout and if less than .003", they will install gears and never check lash. Even though the runout is within acceptable limits, manufacturing tolerances often require U/S or O/S gears to set up properly.

    Open the link TQ posted and read instructions 13 and 16 and the emphasis Andrews places on gear lash. S&S can't say the install is right; they didn't install and can't hear the noise. The gears are Andrews; S&S doesn't manufacture gears. I would bet that the teck didn't call S&S; it would be a waste of time.
     
  6. Whateverr

    Whateverr Member

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    Ok I spoke to the owner this morning also the wrench he said the runout on the crank was .003 he said the play on the gears was .001 with all that being said and as I said in my earlier post I took it back right after the build and told him to check everything and he did checking the the play again and the pushrod adjustment and said all checked out ok. I told him this morming that I was bringing it back and we had to install a different gear as the noise was unberable. I will let y'all know something as soon as I find out what is going on. Thanks again.
     
  7. glazier

    glazier Junior Member

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    Why do you call yourself Dolt??? You sound like a pretty smart guy :D
     
  8. dolt

    dolt Senior Member Contributor

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    You are the first to take note of the handle. Some terms that are synonymous are: airhead, birdbrain, blockhead, bonehead, bubblehead, chowderhead, chucklehead, clodpoll (or clodpole), clot [British], cluck, clunk, cretin, cuddy (or cuddie) [British dialect], deadhead, dim bulb [slang], dimwit, dip, dodo, idiot, donkey, doofus [slang], dope, dork [slang], dullard, dumbbell, dumbhead, dum-dum, dummkopf, dummy, dunce, dunderhead, fathead, gander, golem, goof, goon, half-wit, hammerhead, hardhead, ignoramus, imbecile, jackass, know-nothing, knucklehead, lamebrain, loggerhead [chiefly dialect], loon, lump, lunkhead, meathead, mome [archaic], moron, mug [chiefly British], mutt, natural, nimrod [slang], nincompoop, ninny, ninnyhammer, nit [chiefly British], nitwit, noddy, noodle, numskull (or numbskull), oaf, pinhead, prat [British], ratbag [chiefly Australian], saphead, schlub (also shlub) [slang], schnook [slang], simpleton, stock, stupe, stupid, thickhead, turkey, woodenhead, yahoo, yo-yo

    It's just a play on my initials but I am sure that if you ask the right people, they will tell you that the handle is appropriate; particularly when you include the synonymous terms.:bigsmiley22:

    BTW, thanks for the kind words.:s
     
  9. Haywire

    Haywire Active Member

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    Hey DJ :cheers

    Yes people this individual does know his stuff. If he gives ya some advice good idea to pay attention to it