New 124" build: no response from injectors

[x1rider]

The fact that you got an error code of "injector low" when the injector connector was disconnected means the ECM is seeing the B+ coming from the start relay for the injectors. (which is Good). The "no combustion" error code is derived from current flow through the ion sensor in the coil. Strangely enough, I thought that circuit was only looked at during higher RPM and not during cranking so why you received that error code I do not know. It contradicts how I understand the no combustion circuit to work.
The fact that Both injectors do not work and fail in the same way is good and leans you on the side that the ECM is OK. It would be worse if you were at this point and only 1 injector was failing to open.

Also, just to let you know my bike is not throttle by wire. I know nothing about the set conditions that may have to be met for lift off to take place. I am sure there are a set of rules (more rules) and values that must be met and they are different than non TBW. For instance, twisting the grip during starting means nothing for TBW users. The ECM is in charge and will give the engine the amount of air it wants and not what you want.

I do have 2009 schematics and can look up the ground question but need to know what a Street Glide letters are.

You're right, the injector low does mean the ECM sees the injector. The no combustion came when I cranked the engine with no spark plugs (empty plug boots), maybe the cause was that there was no plug in the boot.
Is the 12v at the injector an "all or nothing" event? I tested both pins of the injector plugs with a voltmeter while cranking the engine and remember seeing around 10v, should it not be 12v or nothing at all (can a bad ground have the effect of only carrying 10v to the injector, causing it not to open)?
I changed my handlebars and had to buy the one piece twist grip sensor, the wires were not the same and I had to put the pins in the plug myself, perhaps I made a mistake which is screwing up the ECM???
I'll unplug the twist grip sensor and see if it works (last year I had unplugged the twist grip sensor by mistake and the bike still started but I got a DTC).
At this point I guess I have to go backwards in all the changes I made and analyze their potential effects one by one.

 

[Hoople]

Is the 12v at the injector an "all or nothing" event? I tested both pins of the injector plugs with a voltmeter while cranking the engine and remember seeing around 10v, should it not be 12v or nothing at all (can a bad ground have the effect of only carrying 10v to the injector, causing it not to open)?
.

What? If your volt meter leads were ACROSS the injector, you should have read Zero volts while cranking (assuming injector was NOT firing).

Reading any voltage ACROSS the injector would indicate the ECM is in fact providing a Ground shot and the injector was opening (or trying to open).

*Now I am saying: measuring the voltage across the injector while the injector is still in the circuit while cranking. Not between a pin and ground and not between both pins with injector disconnected.*

What is the ohmetric value of an injector that your removed from bike.
What is the ohmetric value of an injector you now have installed in the bike.

 

[x1rider]

What? If your volt meter leads were ACROSS the injector, you should have read Zero volts while cranking (assuming injector was NOT firing).

Reading any voltage ACROSS the injector would indicate the ECM is in fact providing a Ground shot and the injector was opening (or trying to open).

*Now I am saying: measuring the voltage across the injector while the injector is still in the circuit while cranking. Not between a pin and ground and not between both pins with injector disconnected.*

What is the ohmetric value of an injector that your removed from bike.
What is the ohmetric value of an injector you now have installed in the bike.

No, I have not measured across the injectors with the injectors still in the circuit, I just probed the pins in the connector while cranking.
I have to check the resistance of the injectors this weekend, but I'll try to do it in and out of the plug.

 

[Hoople]

Reading the voltage at the two pins with the load (injector) removed can be miss-leading. The driving injector output line from the ECM should not be compared to a switch that is either 0 ohms or infinity(when turned on or off). Even if the bike was perfect and running, using a meter to read that voltage will give you inaccurate numbers because your reading averages of 100% "on" vs 100% "off" and the frequency of the pulse comes into play.

 

[x1rider]

Reading the voltage at the two pins with the load (injector) removed can be miss-leading. The driving injector output line from the ECM should not be compared to a switch that is either 0 ohms or infinity(when turned on or off). Even if the bike was perfect and running, using a meter to read that voltage will give you inaccurate numbers because your reading averages of 100% "on" vs 100% "off" and the frequency of the pulse comes into play.

So I guess the best way to get a reading with the injectors on would be to poke through the wire coating right above the plug to get a reading in both wires while I'm cranking the engine (with the injectors on). I wish I had a breakout box for those kind of things.

 

[Hoople]

By chance would you have a link that would get me a copy of the user manual that comes with the TTS package your using. Just wanted to see how the system incorporates itself to the Delphi ECM.

Since I am new to the TTS, I was wondering what benefits are gained to stack a TTS package on top of the Delphi rather than going with just a SE race tuner. Tks.

 

[x1rider]

By chance would you have a link that would get me a copy of the user manual that comes with the TTS package your using. Just wanted to see how the system incorporates itself to the Delphi ECM.

Since I am new to the TTS, I was wondering what benefits are gained to stack a TTS package on top of the Delphi rather than going with just a SE race tuner. Tks.

Here it is, there is documentation in the website.
TTS - MasterTune EFI Programming Software

If I'm not mistaken, TTS was doing the first version of the SERT before Harley switched to KentMoore.
MasterTune is considered by a lot of tuners as the best tuning method for Harleys.

 

[Hoople]

I understand now. It is almost identical to the SE super tuner. I thought there was an additional black box you had to add and mount to the bike. Now I see that is not true.
It allows you to view live data and remap fuel tables similar to the SEST.
So you have your original ECM and no black box.

Question: When you display "Data Items" using your software, does the twist grip data window respond when you twist the throttle? Can you see percent of change when you twist the throttle.
Also since you can re-install the original factory map, I would go back to that just for now.

And now the million dollar question. Did the bike EVER RUN AFTER you made that pin change to the twist grip wiring. If Not, re-track your steps with the twist grip re-wiring.

Remember the twist grip for TBW are dual pots that "sum" the voltage to a +5 volt. If that +5 volts (used for system failure) is not always present, that Must be fixed or your not going anywhere.

 

[x1rider]

I understand now. It is almost identical to the SE super tuner. I thought there was an additional black box you had to add and mount to the bike. Now I see that is not true.
It allows you to view live data and remap fuel tables similar to the SEST.
So you have your original ECM and no black box.

Question: When you display "Data Items" using your software, does the twist grip data window respond when you twist the throttle? Can you see percent of change when you twist the throttle.
Also since you can re-install the original factory map, I would go back to that just for now.

And now the million dollar question. Did the bike EVER RUN AFTER you made that pin change to the twist grip wiring. If Not, re-track your steps with the twist grip re-wiring.

Remember the twist grip for TBW are dual pots that "sum" the voltage to a +5 volt. If that +5 volts (used for system failure) is not always present, that Must be fixed or your not going anywhere.

I'll try that this afternoon after work. I changed the bars this winter so no, the bike never ran with the new twist grip sensor.
I'll unplug the twist grip sensor, I know for a fact (because I did it last year) that the bike will start without it (it goes in a fast idle/limp mode and throws a DTC).
First thing I'll do is re-install the stock TB and stock ECM calibration, and move from there.

 

[FishHunter]

Yves,
Let us know what happens.
Scott