He is probably doing what I wish I was doing---riding
multiple codes loss of ECM serial data
- Thread starter razenman
- Start date
He is probably doing what I wish I was doing---riding
Good thing I didn't set the ECM as a target. Be4 I shelled out $350 for a new one I decided to go back and check things again. I pulled off the VSS connector and check for 5v and had it. So I went back checked all my sensors and had 5v on all of them. Ran the diag and came up with my regulars of P0113 & 0118 as well as a couple others. The others cleared and was left with 0113 & 0118. I checked for 5v at both the intake air and engine temp sensors and the voltage was 5v actually 5.013. I'm going to replace both sensors at $59.00 first and see if that does the trick. I think Hoople was right awhile back with the V spike for some reason. I think it took out both sensors and then the ECM fuse. I believe the Packard connector was not in correct on my first go round of V tests. Stay tuned for further developments Guess I'll have to use a Coke can for target practice.
Ok here we are. I went through every wire to the ECM/packard connector all rung out xlnt and same for visual. I have both 13 switched power and 31 constant (or vice versa) at the connector for every sensor I do NOT have 5v but I do have 5v from each sensor Hot and chassis ground. I rung out every #26 blk/w sensor ground wire as well as #26 between sensors and all is well. That tells me the spike that originally took out the ECM fuse was in the ECM between terminals 6&7 losing their ground hence the only codes P0113 and P0118, the Air temp #6 and the Engine temp #7. Every sensor has the appropriate resistance. Now I am in the market for a 2007 softail ECM. If anyone knows someone who put on an aftermarket ECM (thundermax) let me know. Heck I wait a month and I may put the Thundermax ECM on.
Multiple codes blown ECM fuse
:bigsmiley12: Ok so here is my final on my dilewmna. The bike is back up and running well. I learned a bunch and now have a very good idea about this electrical and my '07 softail deuce.
could not clear DTC P0113 & P0118 bike would not start
replaced ECM fuse blown
fluke'd the entire wiring from the Packard connector (ECM) to device( O2 sensor MAP sensor et all
Removed Gas tank to get to alol wires All wiring was tested in good shape, the sensors all were with in appropriate Ohms. the #26 grd was spliced on right side under tank combining six wires the splice was good.
I did not have 5v dc to any sensor that used the #26 grd but had 5v to all across chassis grd.
Replaced ECM and reprogrammed new to bike, Bike running great AGAIN!
My theory on why the #26 terminal out in ECM. Either Voltage regulator or PC III threw a voltage spike blew out fuse to ECM (Good thing), before it did the #26 grd is seperatly derived internal to ECM and to FI sensors only, never touches chassis ground. it is also the only #18gauge wire in the harness. Electricity follow path of least resistance.
I had to know for sure it was the ECM and why a volt spike?? didn't want to eat a new ECM hence the dilemna.
I'm not sure the old ECM is bad it may have just needed to be reprogrammed to the bike and will be my next project. The reason I say that is I started bike and ran 10-15 seconds b4 it blew fuse it then showed security and check engine on the speedo just like when you start to reprogram a new ECM.
Tanx Hoople 4 all your help! I also ran across the guy who wrote course curriculum for MMI electrical, FI, ECM. :bigsmiley12: :newsmile071:
:bigsmiley12: Ok so here is my final on my dilewmna. The bike is back up and running well. I learned a bunch and now have a very good idea about this electrical and my '07 softail deuce.
could not clear DTC P0113 & P0118 bike would not start
replaced ECM fuse blown
fluke'd the entire wiring from the Packard connector (ECM) to device( O2 sensor MAP sensor et all
Removed Gas tank to get to alol wires All wiring was tested in good shape, the sensors all were with in appropriate Ohms. the #26 grd was spliced on right side under tank combining six wires the splice was good.
I did not have 5v dc to any sensor that used the #26 grd but had 5v to all across chassis grd.
Replaced ECM and reprogrammed new to bike, Bike running great AGAIN!
My theory on why the #26 terminal out in ECM. Either Voltage regulator or PC III threw a voltage spike blew out fuse to ECM (Good thing), before it did the #26 grd is seperatly derived internal to ECM and to FI sensors only, never touches chassis ground. it is also the only #18gauge wire in the harness. Electricity follow path of least resistance.
I had to know for sure it was the ECM and why a volt spike?? didn't want to eat a new ECM hence the dilemna.
I'm not sure the old ECM is bad it may have just needed to be reprogrammed to the bike and will be my next project. The reason I say that is I started bike and ran 10-15 seconds b4 it blew fuse it then showed security and check engine on the speedo just like when you start to reprogram a new ECM.
Tanx Hoople 4 all your help! I also ran across the guy who wrote course curriculum for MMI electrical, FI, ECM. :bigsmiley12: :newsmile071:
chunngle
Member
Hey Hoople, I have been following this thread trying to diagnose a very rough running/miss/backfire through intake condition that only seems to throw a P1353 code. Charged battery to 12.9V. Getting 13.8 - 14.2V while running. All wires from ECM ring out ok. I have 5.0+V at all sensors. Getting 12.6V at pin 31 and 11.26V at pin 13 with ignition on.
Could you please explain in your above post where you refer to ringing out pin 14 to frame ground. Isn't pin 14 the 5.0V power pin? Will this power pin ring out to ground? Please excuse my ignorance as I am elecrtrically challenged. Thanks in advance for any information you could provide.
Thanks....Rick
Hoople
Account Removed
Yes, pin #14 is +5 reference and you do want to ring out that wire to ground. Let me explain.
Lets assume that all bikes (your 2005, OP's 2007 & my 2009) are all the same and pin #14 is the +5 voltage reference (regulated supply voltage by ECM). This +5 voltage reference is generated by the ECM. It is a regulated voltage, meaning it will remain at +5 regardless of battery voltage or what the charging system is putting out. It is a precise, regulated, reference voltage. Note that the "Return" side of this voltage is NOT frame ground. There is also a dedicated return ground reference for the outgoing +5 reference voltage. In my case (2009), it is pin #26. That shows you just how important the return voltage value is to the ECM. The ECM may send out something like 4.95 volts and what comes back may be 3.75 volts, which may equal a value of 197*F of cylinder temperature. A reading of 3.65 volts (1/10 difference) would equal a completely different temp value. Small amounts can make a big difference. Therefore wire resistance itself starts to play an important roll in the readings the ECM sees.
The difference between 11.6 volts and 11.9 volts on a headlight bulb would not really matter in most cases and usually can be overlooked. That is not the case with Map sensors or TPS sensors. A tenth of a volt counts. The wire itself, crimped pins, plug-able connectors, moisture, oxidation, wire splices and leakage to ground all start to play a big roll when it comes to sensor readings which use a reference voltage.
"Ringing out" is term used to verify the quality of the conductor in question. The wire itself and any connectors that begins at pin #14 of the ECM and terminates at the sensor can have issues. It must be checked for both resistance and leakage to frame or reference ground. If either case exists, the ECM will look at that fault and interpret it as just another good sensor reading.
In this case, to ring out (quality check) that all important +5 supply wire,, disconnect it from both ends. Disconnect the ECM plug and disconnect the temp sensor plug. Remember, as in this case, a wire may branch out to other sensors. The +5 reference for my bike feeds 3 sensors. The map, VSS, and engine temp sensors. That means before you can ring out the wire, ALL 3 sensors must be disconnected. Once you have that wire completely floating above the bikes wiring harness, you can check it for integrity. That means NO leakage to ground and VERY low resistance from pin to pin. Readings must read the theoretical limits of your meter. In most cases that will be 20 mega ohms for "infinity" and 1 ohm for a "dead short". A readings of 10, 5, or 22 ohms is Low but it is not ZERO ohms. A reading of 7 mega ohms is High but it is not infinity. The wire must meet the limits of your meter. (20 mega ohms and 1 ohm)
Yes, it's a lot of work but with the OP's thread there was a decision of whether the ECM was going to be replaced ($$),, therefore every other possibility had to be eliminated.
As for your P1353 code. Since combustion efficiency is detected via ION sensing, I would not change or touch anything until I knew what the compression and leakdown was of the engine. Not only the absolute Value, but if the two cylinders are near equal.
chunngle
Member
Thank you for the information. It looks like where I went wrong was not leaving all sensors unplugged before trying to ring out pin14 to frame ground. Sure could use some assistance trying to figure this thing out but should start a new thread. I dont want to walk on the OP's thread here.