Loss of fuel pump power and spark

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by dwbcoyote, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. dwbcoyote

    dwbcoyote New Member

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    2000 FLHRCI, 35k miles. On occasion, when I put the run switch in run, the fuel pump doesn't run nor do I have spark to the plugs. Eventually, with some digging around fuses, relays, connectors, etc. the problem will go away. Bike has a Power Commander III USB on it now for 20k miles and everything was fine until about a month ago. Once the bike starts, no issues.

    My Indie checked fuel pump, run/stop switch, coil, tilt sensor, map sensor and crank position sensor. All good. I thought maybe bad ECM but after reading forums that seems to be quite rare.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Ignition switch or bad battery?
    Check connections, unplug your ECM and clean the connections
    Have u been riding in the rain?
    If so add some dielectric grease to ALL connections
     
    dwbcoyote likes this.
  3. dwbcoyote

    dwbcoyote New Member

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    Thanks Jack. I'll keep checking connections. And as a matter of fact, I rode in a bunch of rain right before this started. I'll pick up grease on the way home.
     
  4. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Step by Step Instructions for Testing Your Harley’s Charging System

    1. Battery Test:The battery needs to be a fully charged battery that has been load tested to ensure proper readings. If you are not working with a fully charged and functional battery, all other voltage tests will be incorrect. Most places like Auto Zone, Advance Auto, and Pep Boys will charge and test motorcycle batteries for free. Standing battery Voltage should be 12.5-13.2 DCV.

    2. Charging System Voltage Test: Start motorcycle, Measure DC Volts across the battery terminals (you should have a reading of approximately 13.2-15 DC Volts).

    3. Check Connections/Wires: Inspect the regulator/stator plug, and check the battery terminals for connection/corrosion. If everything seems to be in order, move on to number 4 below to determine if there’s a failed component.

    4. Stator Checks/Rotor Check: Each of the following tests isolate the stator & Rotor, If AC Output test Fails and Resistance Check, and Stator IB Test Pass then Rotor is at fault (Pull Primary covers and inspect rotor for damage).

    • AC Output Check:
    1. Unplug the regulator plug from the stator
    2. Start motorcycle and change Voltmeter to AC volts.
    3. Probe both stator wires with your meter leads.
    4. The motorcycle should be putting out approximately 18-20 ACV per 1,000 rpm. (Reading will vary depending on system, check service manual specification)
    5. Generic Specs:
    • 22 amp system produces about 19-26 VAC per 1,000 rpm
    • 32 amp system produces about 16-20 VAC per 1,000 rpm
    • 45 amp system produces about 19-26 VAC per 1,000 rpm
    • Stator Resistance Check:
    1. Switch your multi meter to Ohm x 1 scale.
    2. Probe each stator wires with meter leads and check resistance on meter.
    3. Resistance should be in the range of 0.1-0.5 Ohms. (Reading will vary depending on system, check service manual for specification)
    4. Generic Specs:
    • 22 amp system produces about 0.2 to 0.4 ohms
    • 32 amp system produces about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms
    • 45 amp system produces about 0.1 to 0.2 ohms
    • Stator IB test or Ground Check:
    1. Switch your multi meter to Ohm x 1 scale.
    2. Probe each stator wire with your positive lead on multi meter and the negative to ground.
    3. There should be no continuity to ground on either wire.
    4. If there is continuity to ground your stator is shorted to ground.
    5. Regulator Test: Each of the following tests isolates the regulator only, so if any of these tests fail, the regulator is at fault.

    • Identifying Wires:
    1. Battery Charge Lead– Wire going from regulator to battery positive.
    2. AC output leads– Wires coming from the Stator to regulator.
    3. Ground– Wire from Regulator to ground or regulator may be grounded via the physical bolting to chassis.
    • Regulator Ground Test: Insure the regulator body is grounded or grounding wire is fastened tight to a good ground (you should verify this by checking continuity from regulator body to chassis ground).
    • Fwd/Reverse Bias Test/Diode Test: This check is testing the Diode function to ensure it is regulating the AC current for the stator into DC Current.
    1. Switch multi meter to Diode Scale.
    2. Place your Multi meter positive lead on each AC output wire.
    3. Place your multi meter negative lead on the battery Charge wire.
    4. The meter should read voltage typically around .5 volts.
    5. Next, switch your multi meter leads putting the negative lead on the AC output wires and the Positive lead on the Battery Charge Wire.
    6. The reading should be Infinite.
    7. With your meter on the same setting, place your multi meter positive lead on the regulator ground wire or to the regulator directly, and then place your meter negative lead on the AC output leads.
    8. The meter should read voltage typically around .5 volts.
    9. Next, switch your multi meter leads putting the negative lead on the regulator ground and the Positive lead on the AC output wires.
    10. The reading should be Infinite.
    11. Note: Below is a table to show the readings:
    Positive Lead Negative Lead Reading
    AC output 1 Battery charge lead Voltage
    AC output 2 Battery Charge Lead Voltage
    Battery charge lead AC output 1 ∞
    Battery charge lead AC output 2 ∞
    Ground AC output 1 Voltage
    Ground AC output 2 Voltage
    AC output 1 Ground ∞
    AC output 2 Ground ∞
    Replacement Components
    Batteries
    350-430 (97-09 FLT, FLH, FLHT Dressers)
    350-431 (82-94 FXR, 84-90 Softail, 71-86 FX, 79-96 XL)
    350-432 (91-09 Softail, 97-09 Dyna, 97-03 XL)
    350-433 (80-96 FLT, FLHT, 93-96 FLHR)

    Stators:
    380-864 (L84-90 XL)
    240-556 (91-06 XL)
    381-259 (70-75 Big Twin 15 Amp)
    381-084 (76-80 Big Twin17.8 Amp)
    381-260 (81-88 Big Twin 22Amp)
    381-202 (89-99 Big Twin 32 Amp)
    381-596 (00 Softail, 99-03 Dyna)
    381-594 (99-01 Touring)
    381-595 (02-05 Touring)

    Regulators: (Offered in Chrome and Black, Black Part numbers listed below)

    380-798 (84-85 XL)
    381-177 (86-90 XL)
    381-014 (91 XL)
    380-797 (92-93 XL)
    380-485 (94-03 XL)
    381-835 (04-06 XL)
    383-089 (07 XL)
    381-252 (70-75 Big Twin)
    381-328 (76-80 Big Twin)
    381-327 (81-88 Big Twin)
    381-277 (89-99 Big Twin)
    381-605 (00 Softail)
    381-603 (97-01 Touring)
    381-606 (00-03 Dyna)
    Rotors:
    380-373 (70-06 Big Twin 18, 22, 32 Amp Systems)
    380-374 (95-06 Big Twin 38 Amp Systems)
    380-375 (97-05 Big Twin 45/48 Amp Systems)
    383-640 (84-90 XL)
    383-641 (91-03 XL)
    383-642 (04-09 XL)
    Start with a Good Full Charged Battery
    If in doubt replace it before tests and if you see a drop of 10 volts or less it is BAD





    [​IMG]
     
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  5. dwbcoyote

    dwbcoyote New Member

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    Wow, that's a lot of info. Thank you. I've done items 1 & 2.

    And I forgot to mention when this occurs bike will still turn over, just doesn't fire.
     
  6. 76_shovel

    76_shovel Member

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    The fuel pump, injectors, and coil all get their 12v from the same source.. so if you do not ( in general ) do not hear the fuel pump
    run up, you can be pretty sure you will not have spark.
    (from memory) the easy wire to check is the yellow/green that feeds the fuel pump. If memory serves this wire comes
    from a relay ( right side I think) under the side cover. Make sure that relay is functioning correctly.
    I have seen this relay intermittent where at times it may close however the contacts are not passing the 12V on to the pump.. etc.
    also check the source of the 12V to that relay (this is what is sent to the pump, coil, injectors) as I have seen this source intermittent.
     
    Jack Klarich likes this.
  7. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Check your crank sensor for a signal
    [​IMG]
     
  8. joel

    joel Junior Member

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    Any feed back on this prblem?
    Did you figure it out?