Intermittant Electrical Gremlin

[TripleJ]

Gents,

I could use some help figuring out an electrical issue that has reared its ugly head as of late. I would be just guessing where to turn at this point. Here is the skinny.

2008 Heritage with 20K miles, PCV, Stage One Air Cleaner, V&H True dual just added but had this problem with the previous Rinehart Pipes as well.

Bike started throwing codes recently and are as follows:
P - P0562 - Battery Voltage Low
P - P0563 - Battery Voltage High
U - 1097 - Loss of Speedo Serial Data to ECM - Code was reset and has not returned
PN - 32919-07A - I have not been able to figure out what this part number is as it is not in my parts manual.

S - B0563 - Battery Voltage High
PN - 68925-07 - Security System Module

SP - B1006 - Accessory Line Overvoltage
SP - B1007 - Ignition Line Overvoltage
PN - 67033-08 - Speedometer

Started to notice the engine light and/or battery indicator coming on and checked the codes. Historical codes only showing. Reset codes and made sure to clean, inspect and apply dielectric grease to battery cables, VR connections, checked for frayed wires, etc.

When the light(lights) comes on it is usually within th first 5 miles or so at beginning of ride. Sometimes comes on after that but not usually.

More recently started to notice at night that when the engine and/or battery light(sometimes just the engine light only) came on that my head light would burn brighter making my low beam look as bright as my high beam. This would happen for 5 seconds or so then go back to normal. Then last night I notice when the headlight got brighter my speedometer back light would go out until the headlight returned to normal and the speedo would return to normal as well.

Bike starts and runs fine. Checked the battery with a handheld load tester and voltage stayed above 10V. Also checked the battery voltage during start up and here are those results.
12.5 V ignition off
12.06 V ignition on
9.6 V while cranking
13.50 V at idle and goes up with increasing the RPM

Thought battery looked good so went on to check the Stator and here are those results.
42V @ 2k RPM
0 continuity on all 3 wires to ground
.1 resistance on all 3 wires to each other.

Stator checks out fine also so on to the VR where things get interesting, at least to me.
Checked the VR wires for voltage as follows.
2 wires showing 11.28 Volts using DVOM and one wire showing 11.20 Volts when grounded to the battery. BUT using a test light I can NOT get the test light to light up on ANY of the 3 wires? That part eludes me. Tested the test light to make sure it works and ran the same test 3 times. How can I have the voltage there with the DVOM but not show anything with the testlight? I understand that the older VR's should not have any voltage present checking with this method but I am not sure what voltages, if any, should be present with the newer 3 phase units.

My thinking is the VR is causing an intermittent Low/High Voltage situation and that is the reason for throwing the codes. What I don't understand is why does the Back Light on the Speedometer go out when the Headlight shines brighter? Is there a surge protector of some sort that shuts power to the speedo to protect it from overvoltage?

So what do you guys think. I have a VR ordered and hope that solves the problem but sure could use the input from the members here. I know should replace the stator at the same time as the VR but would like to fix the root cause first. :small3d023:

 

[Hoople]

Great homework & data. How refreshing it is to see that...

1) "13.50 V at idle and goes up with increasing the RPM".
Goes up to a maximum of what? What is peak recorded voltage.

2) Have you ever in the past started the bike while it was still hooked to a battery charger or another running vehicle of any kind.

3) I am not positive but I believe the 32919-07A part number is the number for a base ecm PCB board that has no microcode or firmware loaded to it. I DO know it represents the ECM but I believe an un-programmed one. I would disregard it.

4) The possibility of the Stator causing your problem is very remote, almost none existent in my opinion.

5) Can't answer your back-light issue until we get answer to question #1.

 

[TripleJ]

Hoople, thanks for the quick response. Just went out and tried to get you a high voltage reading but neighbors are having a kiddie birthday party behind me and needed to keep the rpms down but got a reading of 13.7 at around 3500 rpm. I don't generally ride in the high RPM range so that figure might be close to the peak voltage?

Never have started the bike while hooked to charger or any other vehicle.

 

[Hoople]

You stand a Very good chance that the VR will fix your problem. Most ECM's that are programmed to trap peak voltage readings will do so on 1 A/C cycle of ripple. It only takes 1 cycle to do damage so the circuit must be fast acting and is designed to react quickly. The thing is, hand held meters won't catch peaks that fast and short. That is something a hand held meter will never see. It takes a special type of meter (Dranetz meter) to trap those fast transits.

Being that ALL devices on the network trapped a Hi voltage error, I would say (guess) it's not erroneous and your regulator may be shot. The only way to really know would be to hang a Dranetz meter on the charging circuit. But that is something not everyone has access to.

If you were to record and clear the codes, how long does it take to log a new code. If it is quick, I would say the regulator is the problem. Supporting evidence would be logging new codes quickly. You can't go wrong replacing the VR. Make absolutely sure the pin connectors are all clean and tight with the new VR..

 

[TripleJ]

Usually the codes come back within a few (5-10) minutes of resetting, but not always.

I have a new VR coming and will let you know if that solves the problem. I hear you on making sure the connections are clean and tight. When I went out earlier to get you a reading the connections was not tight after I was messing with it earlier and voltage was dropping (not charging) after I started the bike. Wish all problems were that simple to fix

You are a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate the help. If a had to take a bet, I would bet that you have one of those Dranetz meters in your toolbox :newsmile047:

 

[Hoople]

If new DTC's are posting that quick, I would get your present regulator out of there. There may be a bunch of hash getting past the regulator. It is only a hunch but it's not worth putting your 3 ECM's at risk for one $150 VR. Once again, be sure the New VR terminal pins are clean & tight.

I hope what I am recommending does help & thanks for making it so easy by providing all that Great info. It's too bad Texas is so far from me, we could have hooked this Baby up to your bike. She is one of my "Pride & Joy" tools. She will trap any anomaly that has a time width of 1.5 nano seconds or more.

 

[TripleJ]

So that's what a Dranetz meter looks like lol. Will hold off riding until I get the VR replaced and report on the outcome.

Thanks again for the help, it is much appreciated.

 

[Dr. Dolittle]

TripleJ - I want to second what Hoople has already said. If everyone backed up their questions with the amount of comprehensive data that you provided, we'd be able to troubleshoot problems so much easier it isn't even funny.

TripleJ and Hoople - my hat's off to both of you! I know nothing about electrical work yet still enjoyed reading this enlightening and refreshing thread.

 

[HarryB737]

What a great read... Good job on your homework, & Hoople thanks for your continued support of members w/"E" problems... As a behind the scenes member I too think it is the VR, from the good diagnostics shown here, but also Triple J from your location... we've had a very Hot summer, and I'm sure riding around in Texas has been brutal on your regulator. This is one part of all of our Harleys is very sensitive to heat. Please repost after your new VR is installed, and I'm confident the problem is resolved...

 

[Jack Klarich]

If new DTC's are posting that quick, I would get your present regulator out of there. There may be a bunch of hash getting past the regulator. It is only a hunch but it's not worth putting your 3 ECM's at risk for one $150 VR. Once again, be sure the New VR terminal pins are clean & tight.

I hope what I am recommending does help & thanks for making it so easy by providing all that Great info. It's too bad Texas is so far from me, we could have hooked this Baby up to your bike. She is one of my "Pride & Joy" tools. She will trap any anomaly that has a time width of 1.5 nano seconds or more.

Now do c why I call you Mr Electricity, if u did not invent it u were there with Edison to throw the switch