Hot start kickback

Discussion in 'Touring Models' started by btsom, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. btsom

    btsom Active Member

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    2008 Road King, 27,500 miles, only mod is SE Compensator due mostly to the infamous starter clunk. Now, after a short stop such as a quick fueling, and a restart, I frequently get a kick back against the starter and what sounds like a sprag clutch slipping. From the sound, I assume the starter clutch is a sprag type. Several posts have talked about a tune change to retard start timing. Both the clunk with the old compensator and now this kick back make that seem a reasonable option. I just had a one up ride and got 49.5 mpg so I don't want the "after start" timing changed, is there a down side to the tune change and what might be the typical cost from the dealer?

    After this happened a few times I checked the starter gear and the clutch ring gear, no damage to either one, pretty well says "starter clutch" noise.
     
  2. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    It can be done but I have never heard of a "tune change" to retard the spark while cranking. The lowest cell available in the SEST is 750 RPM by 15 MAP pressure = 20 degrees of advance. I have never seen anything in print that quoted what cranking (250 RPM) in degrees of spark advance there is.

    I agree that if the timing is 20 degrees BTDC during cranking,, it is way too much.

    Would you have information on what current cranking spark advance is?
     
  3. btsom

    btsom Active Member

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    Thanks for the response. I have no idea what the actual cranking advance is, it has never been back to the dealer and has no after market changes to the computer. Ideally, it has whatever the factory programmed. Is there any developing weakness in the 2008 starter clutches or revised part number for replacements?
     
  4. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    None that I know of. But to really get an answer to that question requires knowing a person on the inside. There are a couple of members here that work as Techs @ HD dealerships so maybe one may chime in.

    In all my past, I have found having 5 degrees of advance during cranking is plenty for starting. The amount to what actually is programmed in our ECM's during cranking is not quoted in the service manual.

    But from just starting my own bike, it does seem like a bunch.(> 5degrees)
    I wish I knew if the leading cell in the Spark advance map was actually 0-750 RPM but I do not.
     
  5. btsom

    btsom Active Member

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    Thanks for the information, I'll keep an eye out to see if any of those techs chime in.
     
  6. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

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    Have you changed fuel stations? do you use the same fuel and octane as before? (slow burn 92)

    Not turning the throttle when you start it.(.)

    Have you tried New Plugs (hd stock ones)?

    Have you checked for a intake air leak?

    Is it kicking over as hard and as fast(sound) as it did before?

    Could it be the battery Low and need of replacement?

    The 49.5 MPG on that bike IMO is WAY Lean.I would think a TFI or fueler is needed..

    ALL this is happening NOW and Not Before?

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  7. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    I was thinking the same thing Bubbie.... that baby is lean
     
  8. btsom

    btsom Active Member

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    Battery checked very good, no electronic or mechanical changes from however it came, not even the throttle response/high idle warranty reprogram (never had that problem), fresh Harley plugs. About the only change now that it has been mentioned is a Shell Station opened which is closer to my house and sells for the same price as Phillips/Conoco, always top tier, no ethanol fuel. May have to go back to Phillips. I assumed the Shell was of the same quality as the others. Fuel economy seemed pretty well in line with that reported by others-low 40s riding 2 up (that's most of the time) to high 30s doing 75 to 80 on the interstate, especially when there is a head wind. The one up high fuel mileage was on country roads, not flogging it too hard, seemed high normal to me.

    It is starting to sound as though I may have just drawn a weak starter clutch, just lucky I guess. At least I won't walk into the shop and make a fool of myself, thank you guys very much.
     
  9. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    That needs some more fuel, I bet it glows @ night time
     
  10. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    I can't believe so many guys can still get non-alky fuel. There are just 2 stations left in a radius of 40 miles where I live that sell non-alky and both of them are 87 octane.
    I can't stand E10.