Here we go again!! VR this time?

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by TQuentin1, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    OK, Gang. Here is the background:

    Another Stator Problem!! - Harley Davidson Community

    This morning, I am headed to the Office, and stop to get gas. Finished that, and jumped on the highway to hit the HOV. As I am approaching the entrance, I realize the engine light is on, and the Volt meter reads battery voltage only. Oh oh.

    So I jump on the HOV and exit to the Park and Ride to turn around and head home. No charging voltage the whole way.

    When I get home, I hook up the Twin Scan II and the historic and current code are both:

    P0562 Battery voltage low

    Duh!!

    So I pull the stator plug off the VR to check Vac out of the stator. About 30 Vac/1Krpm. That seems OK, but I know about misleading results when not under load.

    So I popped off the primary chain inspection plate and took a whiff. Does not smell burnt. Gonna dump the primary fluid and see how it looks and smells.

    But, guess what I did not change when I did all the stuff in the link above back on June 19th? That's right, the VR!! So guess what I bet is wrong with this thing!!!

    Gonna change out the VR with the one I took off back on Nov. 19th last year.

    See what happens.

    TQ
     
  2. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    TQ, What brand VR did you install back in November?
     
  3. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    HD. 74505-02 (08/03/10 - I assume this is the mfg date).

    TQ
     
  4. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    HD => Good Quality for sure. But you just could have gotten a bad one. If you try the old regulator, make the test quickly because you don't want to tear up your good stator. Even if the old regulator is dead shorted, you probably could get away with 60 seconds of testing before you do any damage to the good stator.

    Install the old regulator, start it, measure it, shut it down. Do it all in under a minute and you should know where you stand without burning anything up.
     
  5. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    What do I need to measure, just that I am getting charging voltage?


    OK. Got charging voltage. See if that does it. Will clear the code after I get it back on the tender.

    TQ
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  6. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    TQ, How many plugs and pins are on your regulator. Two plugs with 2 pins in each or 1 plug with 3 pins, or 1 plug with 4 pins? Is the charging system on your bike is still single phase and has not been converted to a 3 phase system, correct?

    Are the plugs used hard plastic or are they soft rubber.
    Both plugs on my bike are made of soft neoprene rubber and the wires along with the pins can be pulled out easily. Is yours the same?
     
  7. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    No. See the photos. The stator plug has two female plugs that accept the two male blades on the VR plug. The plugs are hard plastic with an elastomer weather seal between the two halves.

    The VR has two wires seen in the photos below that connect to the ground (black) and circuit breaker (yellow).

    This is definitely a single phase system.

    TQ
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Ok. Good info and pictures.

    From what you said above, it sounds to me like you got a handle on the problem. (?)

    After you get it resolved with a new VR, you may want to check that circuit for excessive voltage drop. Just a little bit can eat parts.

    The best way to make that test is to run dual volt meters and place one meter directly at the posts of the battery. The other meter at the two output wires of the regulator (close to regulator body) using a pair of straight pins through the wires to measure from. Theoretically the meters should read the same value at 2500 RPM. The closer the meters match each other, the better. A difference greater than .25 volt is trouble that needs to be fix because it will eat you up. Put a good load on the system when @ 2500 RPM. (high beam, brake light on etc)

    (actually 1/4 volt is too much for my liking and I would work on getting it even closer than that)
     
  9. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    OK, what I had in the box marked "Possibly Good - 10/10" was not!! On the tender all night and still glowing red. With the tender unplugged, I can watch the battery voltage dropping, so I believe the VR is bleeding back. I had assumed the failure to charge last time was the fried stator, but I guess this VR had gotten damaged too. These units are NOT robust!! I wish there was an aftermarket alternative that protected the stator from little bits of metal shorting the coils, and a different design for the VR.

    Hoop,

    Do you want either or both of these VRs to dissect? I think you were calling for some not too long ago. If so, PM me your shipping address and I will get these to you.

    TQ
     
  10. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    TQ,
    There may be a possibility for a more robust system.
    I am fairly sure the early single phase voltage regulators by HD used "shunt regulation" in their design. The later 3 phase systems (at least mine) use "series regulation".
    Series regulation is so much better over shunt.
    Cycles Electrics CLAIM to use series regulation in all their regulators. And they seem to IMPLY even their single phase regulators are series regulation.

    Now if that is true, you may want to give them a call and specifically ask if the model for YOUR SINGLE PHASE SYSTEM is Series regulation. If it is, you may want to give their unit a try. I can not speak for their quality because I have never seen or used any of their products. But if you believe what they claim, they may have a better mouse trap.
    I would at least inquire.


    I would like to see inside your VR to confirm shunt regulation. I will PM you. Tks!