chunngle
Member
Hello all,
I have a miss/rough idle/cough out the intake condition that is baffling me. I feel like I am chasing gremlins. I am frustrated but determined...lol.
Let me give you all some history and background. The bike is an '05 FLHTCSE2 which began life as a 103". I couldn't leave well enough alone and had it built to a 124" about 4 years ago. Went through the whole Nikasil nightmare and ended up with a set of Axtell 117 cylinders. Over time I have had the top end apart several times for one thing or another. Usually blown head gaskets due to cyliner studs pulling out of the thinned out bored cases. Then found that the "reworked" crank which had never been reworked had twisted to .007 runout taking out the oil pump and cam plate.
Enter phase two....the bottom end has been entirely rebuilt: new cases, timken, darkhorse 4 3/8" crank(.000 sprocket side/.0005 pinion side), cylinders honed and new rings(piston to cylinder clearances good - new pistons and bore about 6 months ago), heads inspected(R&R had gone through heads about 6 months ago), fueling oil pump, R&R cam plate. etc. etc.
The bike ran better than it ever has for about 1500 miles then a mysterious miss developed one day flying down the freeway. Pulled off the freeway and idled very rough to the point of having to feather the throttle at times to keep running. Checked everything and all looked good, volt meter, oil pressure, oil temp, no leaks, etc. Took it easy going home. Checked for codes and P1353 was only code. Let it sit for a while to cool down and tried to start it but wouldnt start. Found negative battery cable slightly loose and tightened. Now cranks good but hard to start( had to give throttle to get it to start which is unusual). Took it for a ride and all seemed ok until it got warm then that same miss and rough erratic idle. Fuel gauge had been bouncing around erratically(gauge has always been inaccurate showing full for about 100 miles then dropping very fast the next 50 miles). Noticed that "hissing" sound coming from tank when ignition switched on and fuel pump primed. Checked several times to confirm. Thought ok easy fix. Replaced both fuel lines and filter in tank. Did not notice any pinholing in the lines and checked with compressor. Nothing. Replaced pressure regulator while I had it apart. OK...no more hissing from tank but still hard starting problems and rough idle. Took it for a ride and it got progressively worse, volt meter down to 12 volts, speedometer stopped working which made flashers not self cancel, fuel gauge erratic. After several miles on way home the volt meter began to read back upwards of 14. Checked battery and it was at 12.4 so put on the charger overnight. Pulled plugs and they look a little lean. Next day conducted a compression test both cylinders are about the same at 155 (this seems low to me but consistent with what it has always been). Conducted a leak down test and both cylinders about the same with about a 1-2 psi loss. No air sounds from intake or exhaust. Slight air sounds from dipstick which lessoned doing the test wet. I kind of talked myself out of a valve problem. From past experience when I had a broken valve spring it showed up in the leak down test plus you could here exhaust out the intake and it wouldnt keep running. Haven't ruled it out just talked myslef out of it being a possibility.
Checked battery after charge was 12.9 and after sitting 12.6(maybe a bad cell?). As you can see I am looking for the easy out here.
Conducted checks on the charging system all seem ok. Checked all EFI sensors for 5volts and all are 5+. Engine temp sensor checked out ok but can not get to the posts in the intake temp sensor to test. Ring all wires from ECM and all check good. Pin 31 has constant voltage 12.7. Pin 13 has switched voltage 11.7. Ring pin 14 to frame ground and not good initially(I did not have all sensors unplugged and separated prior to this test – will recheck tonight). I have not checked crank position sensor yet.
So my dilemma is: electrical, fuel, or valve? Where do I go from here? The motor seems so tight right now that I am trying to avoid pulling heads off until the last resort.
I apologize for the lengthy post but wanted to get as much info as possible out there. I am hoping one of the gurus here can offer some direction and assistance.
Thanks…….Rick
I have a miss/rough idle/cough out the intake condition that is baffling me. I feel like I am chasing gremlins. I am frustrated but determined...lol.
Let me give you all some history and background. The bike is an '05 FLHTCSE2 which began life as a 103". I couldn't leave well enough alone and had it built to a 124" about 4 years ago. Went through the whole Nikasil nightmare and ended up with a set of Axtell 117 cylinders. Over time I have had the top end apart several times for one thing or another. Usually blown head gaskets due to cyliner studs pulling out of the thinned out bored cases. Then found that the "reworked" crank which had never been reworked had twisted to .007 runout taking out the oil pump and cam plate.
Enter phase two....the bottom end has been entirely rebuilt: new cases, timken, darkhorse 4 3/8" crank(.000 sprocket side/.0005 pinion side), cylinders honed and new rings(piston to cylinder clearances good - new pistons and bore about 6 months ago), heads inspected(R&R had gone through heads about 6 months ago), fueling oil pump, R&R cam plate. etc. etc.
The bike ran better than it ever has for about 1500 miles then a mysterious miss developed one day flying down the freeway. Pulled off the freeway and idled very rough to the point of having to feather the throttle at times to keep running. Checked everything and all looked good, volt meter, oil pressure, oil temp, no leaks, etc. Took it easy going home. Checked for codes and P1353 was only code. Let it sit for a while to cool down and tried to start it but wouldnt start. Found negative battery cable slightly loose and tightened. Now cranks good but hard to start( had to give throttle to get it to start which is unusual). Took it for a ride and all seemed ok until it got warm then that same miss and rough erratic idle. Fuel gauge had been bouncing around erratically(gauge has always been inaccurate showing full for about 100 miles then dropping very fast the next 50 miles). Noticed that "hissing" sound coming from tank when ignition switched on and fuel pump primed. Checked several times to confirm. Thought ok easy fix. Replaced both fuel lines and filter in tank. Did not notice any pinholing in the lines and checked with compressor. Nothing. Replaced pressure regulator while I had it apart. OK...no more hissing from tank but still hard starting problems and rough idle. Took it for a ride and it got progressively worse, volt meter down to 12 volts, speedometer stopped working which made flashers not self cancel, fuel gauge erratic. After several miles on way home the volt meter began to read back upwards of 14. Checked battery and it was at 12.4 so put on the charger overnight. Pulled plugs and they look a little lean. Next day conducted a compression test both cylinders are about the same at 155 (this seems low to me but consistent with what it has always been). Conducted a leak down test and both cylinders about the same with about a 1-2 psi loss. No air sounds from intake or exhaust. Slight air sounds from dipstick which lessoned doing the test wet. I kind of talked myself out of a valve problem. From past experience when I had a broken valve spring it showed up in the leak down test plus you could here exhaust out the intake and it wouldnt keep running. Haven't ruled it out just talked myslef out of it being a possibility.
Checked battery after charge was 12.9 and after sitting 12.6(maybe a bad cell?). As you can see I am looking for the easy out here.
Conducted checks on the charging system all seem ok. Checked all EFI sensors for 5volts and all are 5+. Engine temp sensor checked out ok but can not get to the posts in the intake temp sensor to test. Ring all wires from ECM and all check good. Pin 31 has constant voltage 12.7. Pin 13 has switched voltage 11.7. Ring pin 14 to frame ground and not good initially(I did not have all sensors unplugged and separated prior to this test – will recheck tonight). I have not checked crank position sensor yet.
So my dilemma is: electrical, fuel, or valve? Where do I go from here? The motor seems so tight right now that I am trying to avoid pulling heads off until the last resort.
I apologize for the lengthy post but wanted to get as much info as possible out there. I am hoping one of the gurus here can offer some direction and assistance.
Thanks…….Rick
