Help with Diagnosis

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by chunngle, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. chunngle

    chunngle Member

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    Hello all,
    I have a miss/rough idle/cough out the intake condition that is baffling me. I feel like I am chasing gremlins. I am frustrated but determined...lol.
    Let me give you all some history and background. The bike is an '05 FLHTCSE2 which began life as a 103". I couldn't leave well enough alone and had it built to a 124" about 4 years ago. Went through the whole Nikasil nightmare and ended up with a set of Axtell 117 cylinders. Over time I have had the top end apart several times for one thing or another. Usually blown head gaskets due to cyliner studs pulling out of the thinned out bored cases. Then found that the "reworked" crank which had never been reworked had twisted to .007 runout taking out the oil pump and cam plate.
    Enter phase two....the bottom end has been entirely rebuilt: new cases, timken, darkhorse 4 3/8" crank(.000 sprocket side/.0005 pinion side), cylinders honed and new rings(piston to cylinder clearances good - new pistons and bore about 6 months ago), heads inspected(R&R had gone through heads about 6 months ago), fueling oil pump, R&R cam plate. etc. etc.
    The bike ran better than it ever has for about 1500 miles then a mysterious miss developed one day flying down the freeway. Pulled off the freeway and idled very rough to the point of having to feather the throttle at times to keep running. Checked everything and all looked good, volt meter, oil pressure, oil temp, no leaks, etc. Took it easy going home. Checked for codes and P1353 was only code. Let it sit for a while to cool down and tried to start it but wouldnt start. Found negative battery cable slightly loose and tightened. Now cranks good but hard to start( had to give throttle to get it to start which is unusual). Took it for a ride and all seemed ok until it got warm then that same miss and rough erratic idle. Fuel gauge had been bouncing around erratically(gauge has always been inaccurate showing full for about 100 miles then dropping very fast the next 50 miles). Noticed that "hissing" sound coming from tank when ignition switched on and fuel pump primed. Checked several times to confirm. Thought ok easy fix. Replaced both fuel lines and filter in tank. Did not notice any pinholing in the lines and checked with compressor. Nothing. Replaced pressure regulator while I had it apart. OK...no more hissing from tank but still hard starting problems and rough idle. Took it for a ride and it got progressively worse, volt meter down to 12 volts, speedometer stopped working which made flashers not self cancel, fuel gauge erratic. After several miles on way home the volt meter began to read back upwards of 14. Checked battery and it was at 12.4 so put on the charger overnight. Pulled plugs and they look a little lean. Next day conducted a compression test both cylinders are about the same at 155 (this seems low to me but consistent with what it has always been). Conducted a leak down test and both cylinders about the same with about a 1-2 psi loss. No air sounds from intake or exhaust. Slight air sounds from dipstick which lessoned doing the test wet. I kind of talked myself out of a valve problem. From past experience when I had a broken valve spring it showed up in the leak down test plus you could here exhaust out the intake and it wouldnt keep running. Haven't ruled it out just talked myslef out of it being a possibility.
    Checked battery after charge was 12.9 and after sitting 12.6(maybe a bad cell?). As you can see I am looking for the easy out here.
    Conducted checks on the charging system all seem ok. Checked all EFI sensors for 5volts and all are 5+. Engine temp sensor checked out ok but can not get to the posts in the intake temp sensor to test. Ring all wires from ECM and all check good. Pin 31 has constant voltage 12.7. Pin 13 has switched voltage 11.7. Ring pin 14 to frame ground and not good initially(I did not have all sensors unplugged and separated prior to this test – will recheck tonight). I have not checked crank position sensor yet.
    So my dilemma is: electrical, fuel, or valve? Where do I go from here? The motor seems so tight right now that I am trying to avoid pulling heads off until the last resort.
    I apologize for the lengthy post but wanted to get as much info as possible out there. I am hoping one of the gurus here can offer some direction and assistance.
    Thanks…….Rick
     
  2. Dr. Dolittle

    Dr. Dolittle Experienced Member Staff Member Moderator Contributor

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    Wow, I'm sorry I'm not technical enough to offer you any help. But I want to give you an award for the most detailed, informative post asking for help ever!!! Usually we just get, "Help - my bike's not running right!"

    :ap
     
  3. chunngle

    chunngle Member

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    As you can tell from my frustration level I have been through this a time or two already dealing with the old build.....lol.
    I have to say though,,,,I have gotten a good education....for what I have shelled out between the two builds and several bandages applied I could have gone to MMI....lol
     
  4. Dr. Dolittle

    Dr. Dolittle Experienced Member Staff Member Moderator Contributor

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    Sounds like you'll have lots of helpful info for any members thinking about doing similar engine work. Thanks, and welcome!
     
  5. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Worried about your fluctuating voltage on the meter that you talked about above. Sniff test on the Primary fluid? Any burnt smell? I had a burnt stator that still put out the correct Vac when checking. Had to replace both stator and VR.

    You did not specify above if you had the battery load tested?

    TQ
     
  6. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Few basic questions.

    Are you still using the factory Delphi ECM.
    What are you using for fuel enrichment. (piggy tuner, PC, SEST etc)
    Are you still using the original factory coil.
    If you clear the P1353 DTC, does it reappear and if so how quickly. (key question)
    Does an 2005 FL charging system have single phase or 3 phase stator.


    BTW. That is 1 tight engine. 1-2% leakage is usually just a dream if tested at 80 PSI. That great.
     
  7. chunngle

    chunngle Member

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    I have not checked primary for burnt smell. I probably need to do a more thorough test of the charging system. i had the darned stator in my hand three weeks ago....lol.

    No, have not had the battery load tested.

    yes to the factory ECM
    use a SERT tuned by Trask Performance
    yes to factory coil
    the P1353 code comes after each ride
    single phase


    The motor better be tight with everything that I have gone through with it....lol. Thats the reason I am trying so hard to talk myself out of thinking it could be a stuck valve.
    Actually just thought of something. Even with the hard start it will idle ok for 30 seconds to a minute then a cough out the intake and starts to idle erratically again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 21, 2011
  8. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Why don't you hook up your DVOM and monitor the voltage across the battery terminals until you get the symptoms. See if there is a corresponding anomaly in the battery voltage.

    TQ
     
  9. chunngle

    chunngle Member

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    I will try that when I get home this evening. Thanks.
     
  10. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    SERT as in Laptop with black or orange colored dongle and being able to look at live data?

    Does that 30 seconds of "ok idle time" happen only from a stone cold engine or will you get that grace period even when the motor is hot and at full temp.
    Have you already checked or replaced the spark plugs and spark plug wires.