Harleys Transmission and Primary all in one oil

Discussion in 'Transmission' started by RICHY, Aug 16, 2008.

  1. RICHY

    RICHY Member

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    Hi all, this is my first posting,my bike is a 1998 Dyna Low Rider which i have had since new. the problem with it is, since i did this years oil changes back in the spring using for the first time Harleys Transmission and Primary all in one oil the clutch has been draging. As an example with engine off, 1st gear engaged,and clutch lever pulled right in the bike is very difficult to push. All clutch adjustments are correct.Has anyone else had problems after using this new oil The clutch can be felt draging when changing gears while riding, prior to this last oil change never had a problem.
     
  2. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    If you refer to the formula+ that harley sells for primary/trans applications, that is a thick oil and you may get some drag between the clutch plates as you are experiencing with your bike. Try it once the bike is warmed up and see if it is better. A better clutch adjustment with the clutch lever grabbing further from the bar will change this too. If it is grabbing close to the bar, you may not be getting enough clutch plate separation with the thick oil.
    What you are experiencing isn't abnormal with the engine cold.
     
  3. larryjmiller

    larryjmiller Junior Member

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    Two questions...

    I just changed the oil in the primary last night with the HD formula plus after an extensive friction zone training session over the weekend. The oil was a little grey and smelled like burned electrical insulation (or bakelite for you old guys). Everything went well and I went exactly as the tech manual recommends and was pretty easy. This is a new bike and everything inside that I could see from the derby color looked great. no discoloration and very little on the drain plug magnet. Should the oil smell like that?

    Also the dealer sold me a large flat gasket with rubberized raised area for the derby cover but the derby cover had a really nice flat tapered o-ring. Since the bike it pretty new, the o-ring was perfect so I re-used it. Did he give me the wrong gasket or should I have tossed the o-ring and used the flat one?
     
  4. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    First off, the friction zone running cooks the oil and heats the clutch up above the normal riding like it was intended for. Not a good thing for the clutch to do too often or for any length of time. Invest in a quart of the Formula+ from the dealer for around $5 and change it.

    Secondly, the flat Frisbee gasket you were given is the replacement and will work, however the "O" ring in there from the factory can be reused MANY times with no problems at all.
     
  5. R. Lewis

    R. Lewis Senior Member Retired Moderators

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    First --- excuse the ignorance on my end, but --friction zone training session ?? Second --- if I read it right -- you already had the Formula + in it and this happened after the session??? Sorry guys!!!???
     
  6. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    Friction zone= a technique taught to control the bike at slow speeds slipping the clutch while applying the brake too.

    The Formula+ had a burnt smell which was from slipping the clutch, for the $5 I wouldn't run the oil any more being it was toasted, I would replace it.:D


    He "borrowed" this idea from a police department training film and "enhanced" it and sells DVD training sessions.

    This is from his site.
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Question:

    Are these techniques your invention?

    Answer:

    No. The techniques have been used in Motor Officer training since the 1930's. I simply present them in the simplest, easiest to understand manner possible. I've modified the police motor officer training exercises to suit the average rider and present them in a step by step format so that each exercise builds on the next. The best part of this video is that you get to watch it over and over again. Each time you watch it, you'll pick up something new. My customers tell me that they initially watch the video 3 or 4 times before going out to practice. They then have in their mind exactly what the techniques should look like when used properly. These same customers tell me they then watch the video at least once a month and continue to practice as it becomes easier and more enjoyable each time they practice.
    [/FONT]

    Lookie here...
    YouTube - Motorman's Ride like a pro Motorcycle Safety Training Video
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2008
  7. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    This is a bit worrisome. I have had a number of stators fry, and the tell-tale is a burnt smell when opening up the derby cover or dumping the primary fluid (I am assuming the rotor and stator are still in the primary's oil bath on the '09s!). Keep a close eye on this, or better yet, do the simple diagnostics found here:

    Testing The Charging System - Harley Davidson Community

    TQ
     
  8. larryjmiller

    larryjmiller Junior Member

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    It was a prelude to the figure 8. We also did the quick stop exercise and weaving in an empty parking lot just like in the MSF course. A little tougher on a hog than a Kawasaki 250!

    I did change the oil. $5 cheap insurance is right. I wasn't too cool on the friction zone technique and knowing that it puts strain on the clutch and that the clutch rides in the oil, I just wanted to change it and at least look at it because of my years of experience in maintenance.

    Thanks for the alternator tip as the smell was just like a transformer burn out. I'll check the charging circuit as suggested and let you know what I find. I haven't had a chance to look at the manual yet to see if it is in there too. I still have to work for a living hahahahahahaha.
    Thanks again
    Larry
     
  9. larryjmiller

    larryjmiller Junior Member

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    It looks like the alternator (stator) is in there behind the clutch although you can't see it from the derby cover (at least I couldn't). I did check the charging circuit and it looks good. Maybe I got lucky so far. I'll keep an eye on it.

    Sure is a strange (and strong) burned smell though. I ran some of the used oil through a couple of coffee filters and there's no residue and I also put some in an empty glass cigar tube and nothing has settled out in 2 days now.

    The new Formula plus oil does have faint smell similar to what I have in the burned/heated up oil. Maybe that's what happens to it when it gets hot. I'll put some in the wife's teapot and throw it on the stove for a while...yeah right.

    Thanks all for your advice.
     
  10. Fisher

    Fisher Account Removed

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    Check the charging system.Just to be sure.Burnt clutch is smelly too.But I'd like to know before riding far enough to get stranded.