Harley Davidson needs a loan

[glider]

What it all comes down to is the fat cats get fatter and the little guy gets it on the chin as usual.

Make a product that would make us proud to buy and we'll buy it, but don't tell us we have to buy American to support the slobs that make inferior products just because it's an American product. That just doesn't cut it any more , at least not where I come from.

I feel the unions are mostly responsible for the problems as stated above in my other post. Unions in themselves aren't a bad deal, it's the fat cats running them that are the problem. Trips to foreign countries, vacations on the union money and all for what? There's really nothing going on in Hawaii that will benefit my union so why do they have to go there, just because they can is the answer. We all pay for those perks too from our pay checks in the forum of union dues. Then there are those union leaders that say it's part of the job......well show me where it says that is what I say.


And then there are those that support unions too.:naughty

 

[SledDog]

You do not even want to get me started on this one.
GM builds many of the best and highest fuel mileage cars in the world.
But high and well paid Union workser many of my own brother drive cheap imports, and don't give me that well they build them in the usa bull.
They don't pay anywere near the wages of health care US companies are forced to.
you can blame Bush and everyone one else you want but the blame lies closer to home.
Were do you spend your money. EBay ,walmart, Hudyi ,Toylet. Honda hey long as I get it cheap but they pay me well I got over. Hurts but true.
Hd doing ok I do not think they will be going anywere anytime soon.
Everyone in my faimly drives a well made GM, those that ride except a new member ride HD. We'll strighten him out in time.
And This year no gifts will be bought for anyone not made ina us plant.
Government did not creat this mess we did.
2003 - 2007 US Heavyweight New Registrations Share[25] US Market Share 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003
Harley-Davidson 49.4% 50% 49.6% 50.2% 50.3%
Honda 14.2 15.1 16.6 18.7 18.4
Suzuki 12.5 12.9 12.4 10.2 9.8
Yamaha 9.2 8.6 8.9 8.7 8.5
Kawasaki 7.2 6.8 6.5 6.4 6.7



2006 Operating Metrics Operating Metrics Harley-Davidson Honda
Units Sold (thou) 361 103
Units Sold per Employee 35.4 3.6
Revenue per Employee (USD) 637,881 356,746
Operating Margin(%) 27.5 9.2
CapEx as % of Sales 3.8% 4.2%

Take a look at what US products cost in Germany , japan and anyother counrty if we did the same thing to them we would have no Honda or toylet in the us or and german cars

Smitty, no offense, but how many times are you going to post this very same post?? What does motorcycle manufacturing info have to do with bail-out loans to the big 3, or if HD needed a loan?

How about posting the reference for your figures. I have asked you to do this when you posted this info before. But you never did. I can't believe that Harley produces less motorcycles than all other manufactures, but yet has the most registrations.

Also why do you have to bash other manufactures? Do you really think Harley is an all American motorcycle? You may want to see just how much of the parts are produced outside of the USA. That's the same for all Big 3 manufactured cars. That ALL have parts that are non US.

As for you GM mileage claim, you need to read this from cars.com

Best Gas Mileage by Vehicle Class - Cars.com

Best Gas Mileage for Cars, Trucks and SUVs
Each class includes the 2008 automatic-transmission vehicles with the best gas mileage estimates in that category.

Class Leaders City MPG Highway MPG
Compact Cars (Range: 11-37; Avg.: 21/28)
Toyota Yaris 29 35
Honda Fit 27 34

Midsize Cars (Range: 9-33; Avg.: 18/26)
Hyundai Elantra 25 33
Pontiac Vibe 25 31
Toyota Matrix 25 31

Full-Size Cars (Range: 10-31; Avg.: 15/23)
Hyundai Sonata 21 30
Toyota Avalon 19 28

Luxury Cars (Range: 9-32; Avg.: 15/23)
Mercedes-Benz E-Class (diesel) 23 32
Audi A4* 21 30

Sports Cars (Range: 9-31; Avg.: 16/23)
Audi TT* 22 29
Volkswagen GTI* 22 29
SUVs (Range: 12-28; Avg.: 15/21)
Jeep Compass (2WD) 23 27
Jeep Patriot (2WD) 23 27

Pickup Trucks (Range: 12-26; Avg.: 15/20)
Toyota Tacoma (2WD) 19 25
Ford Ranger (2WD) 19 24
Mazda B2300 (2WD) 19 24

Minivans (Range: 15-28; Avg.: 17/24)
Mazda Mazda5 21 27
Kia Rondo 19 26

So after reading those figures, you can see that GM has only ONE vehicle in that list. And by the way, the Vibe is actually a .... wait for it.... A TOYOTA MATRIX!! So your claim is false.

Smitty, I'm sure you're a great human being, but why do you insist on posting info that has no basis or reference? Also, could I ask one more thing of you? Could you please slow down when you type... Your posts, sometimes, are very hard to read...

 

[DDogg]

Boy did I open up a can of worms. I knew I'd get all points of view. Living in the middle of all this is bad news (Detroit). If the auto companies do go down, we are going to have massive unemployment. That's my main concern. I agree the big 3 got themselves into this mess by making a sub par product at the highest wages given. But the government is going to be shelling out a lot more than 25 billion if 250000 people aren't working. It's a catch 22. We as Americans are losing out to Foreign makes. We should stand by our work force and strive to make better products at lower wages. Let's be honest, we all try to make as much as we can. You would want a job to pay 30 bucks an hour verus 20 if you could land that job. Once making the 30, you would not want to take 20. But it's come down to take it or leave it. Here in the Suburbs of Detroit, people are losing their houses right and left. It's the 3 to 4 hundred thousand dollar homes. It's the homes bought with all the overtime money these autoworkers made when things were good. It's a bad scene getting worse.

 

[SledDog]

What the heck... Give'm the money... We've been funding big money bailouts for the last 8 years... Just look at KBR, CH2M Hill, and the many others with no bid, no accountability handouts.

 

[DDogg]

I agree Smitty, that's the problem with the loan. The government will now own part of the industry. What the heck does that tell ya. If the batteries don't cost a fortune to replace and it's a decent ride, I too am interested. I'll save the gas for my HOG.

 

[glider]

That's another area that gets me cranked up, The electric cars (hybrid)
Go into any dealership and inquire what the replacement cost of the battery will be when it dies in not so many years and watch the deer in the headlight look you get.
They should make these cars disposable so you can just park it and leave it for the street sweeper to collect. The cost of the replacement battery will probably be almost as much as the car was. Where do you realize a savings then?
Also check into which car runs on electric power only and whether it's at city speeds or highway speeds. Lots of surprises awaiting the buying public.

 

[Irish Hog]

I am all for the Auto industry getting a bailout. The US helps everyone else out, why not our industries?. GM, Ford and Chrysler have employed millions from day one, not to mention all the taxes they have paid for a hundred years. I will only buy Ford and Lincoln. I don't know if anyone has driven a Ford lately(haha) but they have come lights years in quality and reliability. So I am all for it. I don't know however how I feel about Harley getting a bailout if needed. I would say that a motorcycle is more of a luxury item and that taxpayers should not have to flip the bill for that.

 

[NEWHD74FAN]

We can deal with that here.:s

...lengthy detail as anyone that knows me would obviously agree with.

Making a long story short, I exchanged a few phrases with the service manager and took the car home and gave the ratchet a bit of WD40 and never had another problem with it.

American car manufacturers should take a few lessons from some of the import car manufacturers how to do business and maybe they wouldn't be in the hole that they are now in.

Glider, I hope you ripped a few "kind" words (--in the phrases that "--met the highest level of decorum our HDT Contributor Extradinaire Emeritus is well known for...! Yeah Baby!!!

 

[Sheepdogmarine]

There are a lot of good points made here.

Here is my opinion.

Why would we reward a company, any company, by loaning them more money because they are hurting due to poor business practices? There are a lot of reasons they are where they are and this is hard for me because I have a driveway full of Chevys.

Do you think Uncle Sam is going to step in and bail out me if I screw up? Heck no. Not Sheepdog Marine, not Joe the Plumber, not your local repair shop, nothing. I do understand there are huge repercussions if GM or any of the other big three fail, but.........

when is it going to end. First the banks, now the car manufacturers, who is next? Boat manufacturers? Walmart? Remington?

I know it is a tough problem and the consequences of doing nothing or the wrong thing could be severe, but what is going to happen if they just keep bailing people out?

Okay, off my soapbox.

Ride safe!

 

[Sheepdogmarine]

I am all for the Auto industry getting a bailout. The US helps everyone else out, why not our industries?. GM, Ford and Chrysler have employed millions from day one, not to mention all the taxes they have paid for a hundred years. I will only buy Ford and Lincoln. I don't know if anyone has driven a Ford lately(haha) but they have come lights years in quality and reliability. So I am all for it. I don't know however how I feel about Harley getting a bailout if needed. I would say that a motorcycle is more of a luxury item and that taxpayers should not have to flip the bill for that.

How is a bike a luxury item? I see them as a practical way of getting around and saving fuel.

The whole problem here is once you start bailing out companies, when will it end?