free website stats program Fuels/Octane/Pre-ignition & Detonation | Harley Davidson Forums

Fuels/Octane/Pre-ignition & Detonation

glider.

BOT Machine
High octane or premium gas burns slower than low-octane gas (regular gas). Therefore, combustion is slowed with premium gas. Slower combustion can prevent pre-ignition, or "pinging". Pre-ignition is ignition of the fuel/air mixture before the spark plug fires. The ping of pre-ignition sounds like marbles bouncing around inside the engine. The term "pre-ignition" is sometimes incorrectly used interchangeably with "detonation". The death rattle of detonation is an erratic and intense pressure wave that occurs shortly after TDC (top dead center) of the power stroke.
When the air/fuel mixture is ignited by the spark plug, a combustion flame front spreads outward from the plug accompanied by pressure waves created by the combustion. Detonation is caused by the amplification of two pressure waves combining to form an intense wave "spike", which then bounces around the combustion chamber surfaces, causing very-high temperature spots that ignite a second flame front. The "knocking" sound of detonation results from this secondary ignition and it's pressure waves which greatly shock-stresses pistons, piston lands, rods, crank and bearings. Schlieren photography of Harley combustion chambers during actual engine operation has revealed that detonation is not the result of "colliding flame fronts" as some believe. Most everyone does agree, however, that severe detonation will quickly destroy an engine.

The octane rating system used in the USA is RON + MON/2, where RON is the Research Octane Number, and MON is the Motor Octane Number. The ratings are determined on a dynamometer for a particular fuel. The RON dyno test is done without a load on the motor, and the MON dyno test is done with a load on the motor. The two results are then summed and divided by 2 to determine the rating of the gas which is displayed at the gas pumps.

An engine's octane needs are influenced by several factors, especially the configuration of the engine (state of mechanical tune, i.e. - cranking pressure, valve timing, ignition timing, operating temperature, plug heat range, carbon deposits, etc.) and each engine has it's own distinct octane requirements for optimum operation. For example: If your engine only needs 89 octane to run properly without pre ignition, the use of 91 octane will not increase performance! Conversely, the use of 87 octane, when 89 is needed, will result in pre ignition, overheating and poor performance. Once you have established the actual octane needs of your particular engine for ping-free operation, the use of higher octane gas is only wasted money!
 
How about Octane bootsers? If you use an 87 octane and put in a octane bootser. Would that be the same as running 93 octane?
 
I was just thinking that the price of 87 octane begining cheaper, that you could put the 87 octane in the tank blended with the octane booster would bring it up to 91 or higher. Would there be any disadvantage to doing something like that? Is the Octane Booster stuff bad for the carb or engine?
 
If you figure cost of doing it both ways, and the inconvenience of carrying the booster on the bike, I think it would just be easier to use the 93. As far as any long term disadvantages of using the booster....let us know in about a year.:s
 
Ok how about this. With all this added ethenol added to the fuel these days and I know that reports show that the add 10% ethenol to gas makes the engine run hotter, and you get less fuel milage, and from what I hear the 10% ethenol does not make the gas any better. So would adding something like a fuel additive make the fuel any better?

I have read that Liquid Horsepower which is sold at our HD Dealership said it will only make the quality of the fuel better, and you will also get better fuel milage and better performance out of the engine. Right now my 05 EG is stock. I have not changed anything or added anything to it. I would just like to get a better quality of gas and better milage.
 
I have been running 10% ethenol in everything I own sence 1973 with out any problems.
In fact sence then I have never had a fuel related problem in my bikes or cars.
There is nothing wrong wit 10% ethenol .
as for additives there is really no need for any of them.
Now if you happen to get a hold of some stale gas a litle sea foam or product of that type now and then will not hurt and may even help claen up some gunk left by stale or bad fuel . It will also help with small amounts of water that some times creep into you fuel system.
 
Well I must say. I did get a bottle of that Liquid Horsepower. I followed the directions on the bottle, and this is my 3rd day in the tank. I can tell a big difference in the way the engine runs.

It just feels alot more responsive to the throttle now, and even when running in 5th gear, and I twist the throttle I can tell a difference in the performance. So far have have 33 miles on this tank. I will let you know about the gas mileage. My last tank fillup, I got 187 miles just around town. It will be interesting to see what I get now.
 
Question....in my neck of the woods we can only get 90 octane. Should I run with an octane booster?? I am basically stock, but I do have SE Stg 1 and tuner, and true duals. No crazy compression or anything. I dont notice any knock, but I have never been able to run a better fuel in my scoot to tell the diff. Whadda you fella's think?? (Oh yeah, it's all 10% EtOH blend here too)


I see you are in Amarillo, about 3500' above sea level. One thing higher octane does is protect against pre ignition which can be caused by high compression creating heat much like what happens in a diesel engine. The air in Amarillo is less dense than the air at sea level so your engine won't be able to make as much pressure during the compression stroke as it would at sea level. Therefor, the heat created by the compression is less meaning that your need for a given octane number is less. Not being a combustion engineer, I can only guess that at your elevation, 90 octane meets the anti knock requirements equivalent to the higher octane recommended for sea level use. I never saw any 93 octane while in the Denver area either.
 
Back
Top