Engine Tuners You Would or Wouldn't Recommend
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Rod Stewart
Active Member
Just thought I would add my comments on experiences with the PC III tuner.
This is on a 2007 RK which has a 103" BigBore kit, SE 255 cams, RH 3.5" true duals, K&N, stock heads and TB, about 9.3:1 CCR, and stock ECM tune.
PC has a stock map for this combo (#0034 I think), which when downloaded gave great performance, but lousy cruise mileage.
After phoning the Dynojet people for some advice, I went into the map for each cylinder and leaned off the values about 5-10 points in the entire range of 2000-3500 rpm and 5 to 20% throttle opening; ie the normal cruising range. This brought the mileage back up to 38-43 mpg, and it still seems to run great. When you need to roll it on, she runs very strong. So now I can safely figure about 180 miles range on a tank of gas.
I really like the ability for map tweaking afforded by the PC III. It makes the unit very versatile. The best way to tune it of course would be in combination with a portable O2 analyzer, such as the unit you can rent from Dobeck. That may be the next step.
Rod
This is on a 2007 RK which has a 103" BigBore kit, SE 255 cams, RH 3.5" true duals, K&N, stock heads and TB, about 9.3:1 CCR, and stock ECM tune.
PC has a stock map for this combo (#0034 I think), which when downloaded gave great performance, but lousy cruise mileage.
After phoning the Dynojet people for some advice, I went into the map for each cylinder and leaned off the values about 5-10 points in the entire range of 2000-3500 rpm and 5 to 20% throttle opening; ie the normal cruising range. This brought the mileage back up to 38-43 mpg, and it still seems to run great. When you need to roll it on, she runs very strong. So now I can safely figure about 180 miles range on a tank of gas.
I really like the ability for map tweaking afforded by the PC III. It makes the unit very versatile. The best way to tune it of course would be in combination with a portable O2 analyzer, such as the unit you can rent from Dobeck. That may be the next step.
Rod
dolt
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter if bike is stock or modified, carbed or fuel injected; there is no substitute for a proper dyno tune to optimize performance. Never understood how anyone can spend $2000-$3000 on performance upgrades and not spend another $300 or so for a proper dyno tune.
TTS Mastertune and DJ Powervision are the current state of the art fuel management systems.
It is understandable if someone lives in a remote location and the nearest competent tuner is a 300 mile ride away but that would be the exception to the rule.
TTS Mastertune and DJ Powervision are the current state of the art fuel management systems.It is understandable if someone lives in a remote location and the nearest competent tuner is a 300 mile ride away but that would be the exception to the rule.
Rod Stewart
Active Member
dolt;Doesn't matter if bike is stock or modified, carbed or fuel injected; there is no substitute for a proper dyno tune to optimize performance. Never understood how anyone can spend $2000-$3000 on performance upgrades and not spend another $300 or so for a proper dyno tune.
Agreed 100%. In my case however I am not really interested in wringing every last HP out of it. I may give it full throttle about twice per season. What I AM interested in is having it perform with authority when needed, and getting decent cruise fuel economy the 99% of the rest of the time. Since the DJ tune M812-034 matches the bike setup exactly, I assume that it will make the bike run about as good as can be expected for this setup; whatever the actual TQ and HP numbers are. And don't get me wrong, it would be kind of interesting to know what the numbers are, but I assume DJ have done their homework.
I do like the look and attributes of the newer Power Vision setup. Who knows; may go that way one day. I like the idea of using the O2 sensors as well as the fact that it auto-tunes the ECM to your actual setup. Then once your new tune is in the ECM you can disconnect the PV and go. Nothing is left connected. At $550 though, and the fact it looks pretty cool, it would be a shame to leave it on a shelf in its box.
Rod
dolt
Well-Known Member
I understand and no disrespect intended in my reply. You also have to remember that I might change cams in one of my bikes three times a year, so my perspective may be very different from many on this forum.
I am not sure why some think that dyno tuning is all about "wringing every last HP" out of a motor. Fact is it has nothing to do with that. Dyno tuning is the only way to optimize the state of tune and balance performance with fuel economy; everything is just a guess. I have some news for you, the DJ M812-034 map does not match your bike setup exactly. How can it? No two motorcycles are the same, even if built with the same components. Chamber volumes vary, deck height varies, all heads flow differently, fuels vary, etc. and DJ cannot account for those variances when developing a one size fits all map. You can't see AFR at idle, partial or full throttle, so you have no idea what the motor is doing. AFR could be fat in one spot and lean in another; fat or lean across the board. A lot of guys download a map, bike starts easy, minimal decel popping (shouldn't be any) and good fuel economy; maybe even better than before any upgrades and call the tune good. The only thing the seems to get people's attention is a loss of fuel economy which should be expected from performance upgrades.
I have nothing against the piggy back tuners; I ran the old USB PCIII on my first built motor over 10 years ago until I realized the short comings of that type system. A dyno tune is all about setting the AFR where it should be through out the throttle range, i.e., at idle, partial and full throttle and, IMHO, worth the cost to optimize the investment in performance upgrades. The numbers are a by product of a good tune.
Fisherking
Active Member
I have put se 204 in my bike it has a k&N filter and V&H long shots . I put the power vision self tuner on it I gave it about five consecutive tunes . The bike gets 50 MPG two up and pulls realy nice That is without a Dyno . I can emagine if i got a Dyno how it would reactI understand and no disrespect intended in my reply. You also have to remember that I might change cams in one of my bikes three times a year, so my perspective may be very different from many on this forum.
I am not sure why some think that dyno tuning is all about "wringing every last HP" out of a motor. Fact is it has nothing to do with that. Dyno tuning is the only way to optimize the state of tune and balance performance with fuel economy; everything is just a guess. I have some news for you, the DJ M812-034 map does not match your bike setup exactly. How can it? No two motorcycles are the same, even if built with the same components. Chamber volumes vary, deck height varies, all heads flow differently, fuels vary, etc. and DJ cannot account for those variances when developing a one size fits all map. You can't see AFR at idle, partial or full throttle, so you have no idea what the motor is doing. AFR could be fat in one spot and lean in another; fat or lean across the board. A lot of guys download a map, bike starts easy, minimal decel popping (shouldn't be any) and good fuel economy; maybe even better than before any upgrades and call the tune good. The only thing the seems to get people's attention is a loss of fuel economy which should be expected from performance upgrades.
I have nothing against the piggy back tuners; I ran the old USB PCIII on my first built motor over 10 years ago until I realized the short comings of that type system. A dyno tune is all about setting the AFR where it should be through out the throttle range, i.e., at idle, partial and full throttle and, IMHO, worth the cost to optimize the investment in performance upgrades. The numbers are a by product of a good tune.
dolt
Well-Known Member
Powervision is a great system but, even with the self tuning function, still no substitute for a dyno tune. I don't know what other modifications have been made or the displacement of the motor. However, If you are getting a true 50mpg, two up, you could be running lean at cruise. If the bike was on a dyno, or you had an AFR gauge installed, you would know. Right now, all you know is that you like the way the bike runs and you are getting 50mpg. If the motor was dyno tuned, you would know the performance was optimized and AFR was appropriate for all rpm ranges but you might not be seeing 50mpg.
I own a 2016 Road Glide, I installed a Thundermax on it last week. Took a little time to program, but because it has autotune which adjusts A/F continuously, it runs great. better throttle response, more power. I like it better than the Power Commander V with auto tune I had on my 2012 Electra Glide
Fisherking
Active Member
I found out that the front jug injector was broken and totaly went for a dump on me . I put in new injectors and the bike ran like crap . we to make a very long story short . I downloaded the original tune and the bike ran great , or way better then the self tune about 15 tunes .Powervision is a great system but, even with the self tuning function, still no substitute for a dyno tune. I don't know what other modifications have been made or the displacement of the motor. However, If you are getting a true 50mpg, two up, you could be running lean at cruise. If the bike was on a dyno, or you had an AFR gauge installed, you would know. Right now, all you know is that you like the way the bike runs and you are getting 50mpg. If the motor was dyno tuned, you would know the performance was optimized and AFR was appropriate for all rpm ranges but you might not be seeing 50mpg.
I guess the power visinon compensated for the bad injector with each tune that when I put the good one in the ECM didnt know what to think . I have 3 tunes on it now , and I get 46 on the hiway two up .
F.K.