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Electric Starter has grinding sound.

BUBBIE said:
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I think it to be a Floodiing situation caused by the pump pumping up and too rich at start-up...
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You may be onto something Bubbie. The factory Delphi ECM has a Map called "Cranking Fuel" which adds more fuel during cranking. The Map is an enrichment factor (injector duty time) which is dependent on engine temperature.
It's very possible that by cranking the engine before the ECM finishes its boot process, the firmware by-passes that enrichment map.
It very well may be fuel pump-up like you said but figured I would throw this into the mix also.

I had some pictures to attach that shows this cranking fuel map but the system said the resolution was too great to up-load... I re-sized them but then it said the file size was over the limit. The only thing it liked was "delete":)
 
glazier said:
Thanks Bubbie, but when you say you capped your wires, where did you cap them at and what kind of caps? Do you mean just capping the wire connectors that the O2 sensors were plugged into? And if I don't cap them I'll trigger a code? Don't want to do that. So if I need to cap them and Dobeck doesn't make a cap for the newer bikes, then what are my other choices, if I have any?
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The older New TC's 09 and before ave a different wireing to the 02 sensors... Dobeck, as far as I know, doesn't make the caps for the newer 10's and above...They do for my model 09FLHR.2 wire ones.
They say they are not needed on the later models, like I posted...

I'm not sure IF the caps just ground over the two wire system I have on the 02 sensors ??? Maybe Hoople would know...

I do know the code tossed out is Not a problem and I WAS told by Dobecks "just ignore it" on the newer bikes.
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I will keep us informed on MY starting problem since it seems to start with out a problem doing it this way..

NOT my idea,,,I did read it from another poster long ago.??.. Thought I would try it so I do believe it IS what Hoople said.:D

signed....BUBBIE
 
BUBBIE said:
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NOT Waiting for the bike to go thru the normal process ; light-pump-light off before starting.
Hit starter Immediately and BAM,,,,It starts....
This HAS started without the grind,,,, worked EVERY Time so far on HOT start up...
IN My Case (not others) I think it to be a Floodiing situation caused by the pump pumping up and too rich at start-up...

IF you try it,,,,NO HESITATION from ON to Hitting the start button....Waiting will only cause the Kick back problem ON MY BIKE ...
[signed....BUBBIE
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Since I never had a "hot stall" problem with my '07, I never gave much thought to it. If the injector(s) squirt when the switch is turned on, then the fuel has enough time to vaporize while waiting for check engine light to go out, and will cause an over rich cylinder on the cranking stroke. I like that line of thought. Usually everything is blamed on the compensator.

glazier said:
Thanks Bubbie, but when you say you capped your wires, where did you cap them at and what kind of caps? Do you mean just capping the wire connectors that the O2 sensors were plugged into? And if I don't cap them I'll trigger a code? Don't want to do that. So if I need to cap them and Dobeck doesn't make a cap for the newer bikes, then what are my other choices, if I have any?
Click to expand...

I capped off the 02 sensors on my '07 when I put the Doebeck TFI on. I just put some elec. tape over the end of the plug, then some heat shrink tubing and the hair dryer to snug it all up. A piece of plastic bag and tape will work. I wire tied the plug pointing down, just in case any moisture gets in.
 
BUBBIE said:
The older New TC's 09 and before ave a different wireing to the 02 sensors... Dobeck, as far as I know, doesn't make the caps for the newer 10's and above...They do for my model 09FLHR.2 wire ones.
They say they are not needed on the later models, like I posted...

I'm not sure IF the caps just ground over the two wire system I have on the 02 sensors ??? Maybe Hoople would know...

I do know the code tossed out is Not a problem and I WAS told by Dobecks "just ignore it" on the newer bikes.
****************************************

I will keep us informed on MY starting problem since it seems to start with out a problem doing it this way..

NOT my idea,,,I did read it from another poster long ago.??.. Thought I would try it so I do believe it IS what Hoople said.:D

signed....BUBBIE
Click to expand...


just installed a gen 3 in 2012 switchback .. offered 2 part numbers one with bypass one without .. I got the one with bypass and it did come with the caps or plugs to fool the "brain" into thinking the o2 is fine and doesn't throw a code
 
Thanks Hoople, I'll check my cables. Bike has +76000 miles, battery was replaced July 2011 & no mods to engine. Engine has back fired at least once when I've had this issue starting.
 
The HD 96" TC engines 07 and later touring models and 06 and later dyna models have been notorious for having starting problems and this issue has been covered many many times. Originally HD thought that it was the starters going bad and after warrantying thousands of starters that were not broken HD issued a bulletin to HD dealers that the starter kick back, grind or stall was NORMAL. HD offered the SE compensator as a upgrade item and people that have experienced the starting issues and got tired of replacing starters and starter components finally went to the SE compensator sprocket and that is what fixed their starting problems. HD finally admitted to the compensator being the problem and starting putting the SE compensator in the touring models in 2011 and the dyna and softail models in 2012. Basically if you are having the starter clunk, grind, kick back or stalling conditions mostly on hot starts then you need the SE compensator sprocket and doing anything else to try to fix this issue is throwing your money away. JMO
 
BUBBIE said:
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My 09 does this every once and a while (Hot Starts)........

I had my battery checked (BY HARLEY SHOP)..... I was ready to replace it but battery Proved Fully Charged and holding AMPS, same as new condition.

I am only having this problem when Hot starting and Not every time.

I Have TRIED a new method when Hot...NOT HARLEY APPROVED Right at the time I turn on the Key and the off button to ON,,,,
NOT Waiting for the bike to go thru the normal process ; light-pump-light off before starting.
Hit starter Immediately and BAM,,,,It starts....

This HAS started without the grind,,,, worked EVERY Time so far on HOT start up...

IN My Case (not others) I think it to be a Floodiing situation caused by the pump pumping up and too rich at start-up...


I do NOT approve this method for anybody else BUT it Works On MY bike...........


By INSTANT starter engagement : does NOT kick-back and Fires Right up...:D

IF you try it,,,,NO HESITATION from ON to Hitting the start button....Waiting will only cause the Kick back problem ON MY BIKE ...


NOT HARLEY APPROVED before I get a repremanded from some of the Higher Powers Here.



Just My Way

signed....BUBBIE
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I have the same problem on an 05 Ultra trike with a 103 SE engine with non stock cams and 5 speed trans. Battery new, 20K on clock. All fluids changed when I bought it used in June 2013.
Cold starts OK. When engine is hot, I start the trans in neutral, clutch in, wait for light to go off. Starter engages for a split second, then produces a God awful noise. This will continue until it just happens to start.
Yesterday, when I rode the bike home and put it in the garage, I turned off the engine, then I tried to restart, and had the same God awful noise and no-start. I lLet the engine cool down for a few hours and it started right up, several times in a row. Ditto the next morning when I started it up.
I will try the procedure of quick start without waiting for the light to go off. I hope it will work for me.
My intuition tells me it is caused by the engine temperature, and high compression without compression release.
 
ironmark said:
The HD 96" TC engines 07 and later touring models and 06 and later dyna models have been notorious for having starting problems and this issue has been covered many many times. Originally HD thought that it was the starters going bad and after warrantying thousands of starters that were not broken HD issued a bulletin to HD dealers that the starter kick back, grind or stall was NORMAL. HD offered the SE compensator as a upgrade item and people that have experienced the starting issues and got tired of replacing starters and starter components finally went to the SE compensator sprocket and that is what fixed their starting problems. HD finally admitted to the compensator being the problem and starting putting the SE compensator in the touring models in 2011 and the dyna and softail models in 2012. Basically if you are having the starter clunk, grind, kick back or stalling conditions mostly on hot starts then you need the SE compensator sprocket and doing anything else to try to fix this issue is throwing your money away. JMO
Click to expand...
Is this something a person with good mechanical skills could install in his garage? IS THE SE COMPENSATOR SPROCKET ON THE CLUTCH OR THE STARTER?
 
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