E15 Approve - Impacts to our bikes?

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by Grillfish, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. Grillfish

    Grillfish Junior Member

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    In FL, almost all gas stations use E10, now I heard the feds approved E15.

    Any impacts we need to be aware of?

    E15 ethanol approved in US for 2007+ model years: critics, supporters react : Biofuels Digest - biofuels, biodiesel, ethanol, algae, jatropha, green gasoline, green diesel, and biocrude daily news

    But I did read this..."However, no waiver is being granted this year for E15 use in model year 2000 and older cars and light trucks – or in any motorcycles, heavy-duty vehicles, or non-road engines – because currently there is not testing data to support such a waiver."

    How in the heck will gas stations have all these different blends... Seems nuts to me, but who knows.

    Ride safe and have fun!
     
  2. ultrat

    ultrat Senior Member Contributor

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    some stuff. I just scratch my head..........
     
  3. Porter

    Porter Junior Member

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    Not too much impact to you bike if you ride it often and add stabilizer if you let it sit a while. Short term.

    But there will be a bigger impact on your wallet:
    1.) Costs a little more per gallon for you to buy a stabilizer and use it.
    2.) Ethanol has less BTU than gasoline per gallon, so you are paying for less energy than a full gallon of gas.
    3.) Ethanol is naturally hygroscopic. You can only distill it to ~95%. It takes some special treatment to get that last 5% water out. Even when you do, ethanol will pull moister from anywhere to get back to 95%: tanks in the ground, venting from atmosphere, your tank in the vehicle. So, now in addition to the stabilizer to prevent higher maintenance costs, you are PAYING for additional water (more than what you would typically get from 100% gasoline.) This also reduces the BTU/gallon in addition to the lower BTU/gallon inherent in ethanol's energy density.
    4.) Food from fermentable products will go up as the government susidize farmers (giant industrial farms are the only way to gain the efficiency needed to have alcohol production produce a net positive source of energy when everything is running perfectly. Have a bad crop year and it actually cost more fuel to run than it produces). Simply, farmers (i.e. corporations) will sell corn (or any grain) to the highest price. Food prices must come up to compete. We saw this a few years ago. Now you are paying more for less energy and more for food, and your taxes go to subsidize the companies as well. (Same thing as the subsidizing of hybrid cars to avert the 5-7 year lifespan on the batteries and the +$15K additional cost).
    5.) Finally, the dollar is worth less, because all OIL is priced globally in US DOLLARS. Ethanol, now 15% of the fuel supply, is not. This will delever the dollar. Noticed that fuel and food are creeping back up in price? It is not that they are costing more...the dollar is worth less. Ethanol in the fuel will only make this worse.
    6.) While fermentation/ethanol is touted as a renewable resource, we are then trade the vulnerablilty of foreign energy for vulnerability of weather and blight. While we have pretty good technology, a "bad" season would really impact fuel prices and if you typically think of lack of rain as a reason, what pressure will be put on acquifers/wells if that much money is riding on it? Now your tap in your home is dry....
     
  4. ultrat

    ultrat Senior Member Contributor

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    TX for that info...makes you think.....
     
  5. Porter

    Porter Junior Member

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    Oh, forgot one other kicker:

    There is no reason to think that ethanol would not be globally traded like any other commodity. Plan for South America to completely remove the rain forest to grow crops in their long growing season....So, there goes the whole "energy independence" charade we talk about. The only way that ethanol has a postive energy balance is if it is local. Fueling up a super tanker to carry it to other countries tips the scales to negative.

    I say we keep gasoline for our Harley's as it is currently the most convenient, energy dense source and make everyone ride motocycles 50% of the year by law. Then we take the ashes from burned coal and use them in thorium reactors, built on military bases:
    1.) The US has huge supplies of coal and more ash then we know what to do with.
    2.) Proven safe technology that no one talks about (look it up!)
    3.) Reactors can also burn other highly toxic nuclear waste in to much less dangerous components with much shorter half-lives.
    4.) Putting them on military bases automatically protects the infrastructure and keeps the people from saying "not in my back yard"

    Doesn't fix everything, but it is a real good start.
     
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  6. sprinklerfitter669

    sprinklerfitter669 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the info...
     
  7. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Now that sounds like a plan that would work, but you know how the best laid plans go
     
  8. Dr.Evil

    Dr.Evil Junior Member

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    “Economics In one Lesson”
    Porter, are you sure you did not write this book? It’s like you ripped a page right out of it.
     
  9. ol55forever

    ol55forever Member

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    My concerns with the E15 is the higher moisture content which in Kansas at least makes condensation which in turn leads to corrosion. Any vehicle older than 2007 wasn't built to handle the higher moisture content. I'm not sure that stabilizers prevent corosion. Just my thought.
     
  10. Porter

    Porter Junior Member

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    No Dr. Evil, I did not. But Mr. Hazlitt really made me think about things in a different way. On the ethanol issue, I have more knowledge than most as I work with large scale fermentations (no, not beer..).

    If you really don't know what is going on, or you don't have the background/knowledge base on ANY item and you have to make a guess as to what the truth is: If the government is recommending anything, go in the EXACT opposite direction and you have a 95% chance of being correct. History proves this is you look: not at what they tell you, but watch what they DO, instead. I say this tongue and cheek, but I am also very serious about it as it impacts everyone not on the government payroll.

    Plus, I figure is everyone road HD's, we would gain better fuel economy and people would be better car drivers and pay attention to riders more. Imagine highways filled with nothing but motorcycles!

    While I hope for the future I am planning for the worst. There is a tremendous amount of evidence that our civilization has peaked and we are beginning the descent. That is why I ride a Harley Davidson Ultra Classic, because I can and am enjoying it now. Go out in my own style!

    Not much you can do other than start your own petroleum company. Perhaps specialty "fuel boutiques" may pop up in a few places where you can get "the real stuff" for a premium. If you think Kansas is bad, think about boat owners. Even "Stabil" has come out with a "marine" version because boat owner's on 10% EtOh are have significant issues. 15% will be even worse in a maritime environment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2010
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