Cam Plate Questions

Discussion in 'Touring Models' started by propflux01, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. propflux01

    propflux01 Active Member

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    Hello, Planning on doing a cam upgrade to my '06 Ultra. I wish to use Andrews 21 cams. My question concerns the cam plate: I see older plates have ball/roller bearings on them, and the newer '07 and up have plain sleeve bearings. These are not even using the bronze bushings found on the SE billet plates. Now if the outers can run on sleeves why not the inners? Why the change to this? Is it a HD saving $$ thing?

    I would like to go gear drive if the runout lets me, but if it does not, it seems the only thing I can go with is the "bearingless" cam plates. And from what I see so far, it will be a hodge podge of different items to find instead of a simple kit. I know I need to change inner bearings as well, but I am alittle confused on which plate and oil pump, etc that I will need to do either of these options.
     
  2. crow

    crow Member

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    Here is a list of Parts to do the conversion....
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Slo-Ryd

    Slo-Ryd Junior Member Contributor

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    I did this upgrade this past spring. My walkthrough in the link below lists the parts I used and answers many of your questions :s

    Harley Davidson Forums
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Good write up Al, thanks for ALL you do here:D
     
  5. propflux01

    propflux01 Active Member

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    BigAl66

    Thank you for a great step-by-step! Very informative!!

    However, I noticed the cam plate you used uses the roller and ball bearing set up. I have been scouring the internet with subject and have been seeing plates that do not have the bearings, instead using 'parent' material to ride on. I much rather like the roller/ball bearing setup. however, for what your total came up to, seems kinda high, into gear drive territory. Is there other options that still use bearings and upgraded items without the cost?


    Not to mention the added cost of new lifters(?), pushrods and tubes. Am I correct in this thinking? I am sorry if I sound inept on this, I just want to do this once, and the right way, for naturally as cheap as possible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2013
  6. Bodeen

    Bodeen Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator Contributor

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    I think you'll find the Andrews conversion plate is the one that uses the "parent material" bearings. The SE plate Al used, uses the ball/roller setup. This stuff isn't cheap and you have to decide what you can and cant live with for the costs. This isn't a place to pinch pennies IMO.

    You start looking at a little head work to make those new cams really come to life. Next thing your looking at big bore kit......Oh, it never ends!
     
  7. Slo-Ryd

    Slo-Ryd Junior Member Contributor

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    I re-used my lifters since they were whisper quiet BUT, by using the adjustable PR's, I can change them out in about an hour if any of them became questionable down the road.

    Bodeen is right, although this isn't an area to chince out on, you could save some $$ by re-using your lifters, PR's and tubes. It would require more labor with tearing down the top rocker boxes, but then you'd probably want to spend money on rocker box gaskets anyway. I have opened up a top end and re-used the cover gaskets and gotten away with no leaks, but it's not a practice I would try repeatedly. I consider myself lucky. The SE Cam Plate and pump were $400 and $220 for the cams. Rear cam bearing $35, re-use gaskets EXCEPT for the cam plate and pump boss o-rings $3 total and you could probably do it for $675 or so. I had to have the bearings pressed in $20 from a retired friend and re-used the inner cam chain so factor that in.

    For what I ended up with performance and reliability wise, I think the price was very reasonable. I'm fortunate to be able to do this kind of work myself, thanks to the help of great folks on here, we have that luxury of getting and providing guidance to tackle things like these. I can't imagine what it could've cost if I didn't know what to do and took it somewhere and just opened up my wallet:shock

    I too look for the most economical way to do my upgrades, but never chince out on the necessary components. Good luck with the job if you proceed and let me know if you need any more info. I can even loan the bearing tool if you pay the postage back and forth:s
     
  8. 01 rk

    01 rk Active Member

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    I did the roller chain conversion about a year and a half ago on my '06 classic, replaced the inner and outer cam bearings, adjustable pushrods and tubes, Se oil pump and cam plate with o rings and gaskets for about $500 from Tri-County HD
     
  9. Jennmarr

    Jennmarr Junior Member

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    Seems like I saw a cam plate with replaceable plain bearings in it somewhere. Maybe a Screamin' Eagle part in the 2014 P&A catalog? I will look when I get home tonight. The use of a plain bearing instead of a ball bearing on the outboard end of the cam does not concern me too much. Plain bearings have been used for decades on the crankshafts and camshafts in automotive applications.
     
  10. Jennmarr

    Jennmarr Junior Member

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    I found the picture that I thought I remembered. It is not quite what I thought. The picture is on page 464 (P/N 25282-11) of the 2014 H-D Parts & Accessories catalog. It does seem to have a replaceable plain bearing in it, but the bearing carries the end of the pinion shaft and not the cam shafts.