ATF In Primary??????
- Thread starter porkchop
- Start date
krikket
Active Member
ATF is not a great lubricant, compared to an oil which is significantly thicker. Where the ATF may work pretty well for clutch in terms of grip, you would pretty much grenade the rest of the primary. ATF is more of a hydraulic fluid than a lubricant anyways.
Firebird62
New Member
Hi Guys, First post for me.. According to the instructions for my Rivera Primo Clutch, I should use ATF!
Caper
Active Member
Man, oil topics can be touchy....here are some of the answers I got to some questions I asked.
I've discussed this topic with a few clucth manufacturers and also to Bel Ray. BDL, Barnett, Energy One all recommended using Type F ATF with their clutches. Primo Rivera recommended using Dextron ATF, Bandit Machine said Type F was fine but Spectro 80 Gear oil was better.
Bel Ray cross reference chart a few years back recommended their Gear Saver Hypoid 80-90 as a replacement for HD Primary oil...now BelRay has its own Primary Fluid...so I asked them about it....the answer I got is their jug labeled Primary Oil is their 80-90 gear saver oil with a different label on it for Marketing Purposes only.
Then I brought this up to a guy who does Land Speed Record runs with Sporty's about using ATF in the primary and he said altho it will work fine for the clutches it doesn't have the shear strenght to hold up in the primary and when you park the bike all the ATF would drip off the chain and sprockets causing a dry startup every day.
He recommended any 75-90 Gear oil with the Limitded Slip Differential (LSD) additive pak in it suitable for wet clutches is what you want to run....good for the clutch and the oil won't drip off the chain and sprockets. He uses Red Line in his LSR bikes and street bikes because it's free for him... but any 75-90 with the LSD additives are fine.
They all said "NO" to running synthetic engine oil in the primary
So, will ATF work in the primary,,yes,,,,will it hold up,,,no,,,,will it damage anything,,,chain and sprocket wear if left in too long, as with any oil anywhere.
I've discussed this topic with a few clucth manufacturers and also to Bel Ray. BDL, Barnett, Energy One all recommended using Type F ATF with their clutches. Primo Rivera recommended using Dextron ATF, Bandit Machine said Type F was fine but Spectro 80 Gear oil was better.
Bel Ray cross reference chart a few years back recommended their Gear Saver Hypoid 80-90 as a replacement for HD Primary oil...now BelRay has its own Primary Fluid...so I asked them about it....the answer I got is their jug labeled Primary Oil is their 80-90 gear saver oil with a different label on it for Marketing Purposes only.
Then I brought this up to a guy who does Land Speed Record runs with Sporty's about using ATF in the primary and he said altho it will work fine for the clutches it doesn't have the shear strenght to hold up in the primary and when you park the bike all the ATF would drip off the chain and sprockets causing a dry startup every day.
He recommended any 75-90 Gear oil with the Limitded Slip Differential (LSD) additive pak in it suitable for wet clutches is what you want to run....good for the clutch and the oil won't drip off the chain and sprockets. He uses Red Line in his LSR bikes and street bikes because it's free for him... but any 75-90 with the LSD additives are fine.
They all said "NO" to running synthetic engine oil in the primary
So, will ATF work in the primary,,yes,,,,will it hold up,,,no,,,,will it damage anything,,,chain and sprocket wear if left in too long, as with any oil anywhere.
Caper
That's the most logical and reasonable post I have seen to date on the primary oil.
Many topics on this and truth be known, it will run on peanut oil if you are foolish enough to try it. As stated previously else where, that's why there are different compartments for fluids as there are different requirements for the different areas of the bike. Using the "one oil does all" theory will work but I'm interested in what will work best in each area, not to "simplify" the oil changing and maintenance by using the same oil everywhere. If you have to buy the oil, why not buy the specific oil that is best suited for the job.
Some dealers use the SYN 3 in all compartments for their own convenience and if you believe this is the best choice for you, then use it. The MOCO did come out with their Formula+ so if you feel the SYN 3 is the best choice in YOUR bike, then use it! They didn't change their outlook on the oil for no reason at all.
Speaking of which the comment in the above thread brought back what Amsoil used to push as their MTL and a few other products and since changed that their 20/50 ENGINE oil will do the job in all three compartments. Common guys, get off the fence and stop trying to "Market" what you think will sell the product to those that don't know the difference by making it look simple. Different requirements require different lubricants and an engine oil will not cut it in the long run.
You wouldn't put gear lube in the engine so why would you put engine oil in the gear box?
It's your money and your bike and also your choice as what to use but I prefer what is made for the specific application for longevity and best lubrication.
That's the most logical and reasonable post I have seen to date on the primary oil.
Many topics on this and truth be known, it will run on peanut oil if you are foolish enough to try it. As stated previously else where, that's why there are different compartments for fluids as there are different requirements for the different areas of the bike. Using the "one oil does all" theory will work but I'm interested in what will work best in each area, not to "simplify" the oil changing and maintenance by using the same oil everywhere. If you have to buy the oil, why not buy the specific oil that is best suited for the job.
Some dealers use the SYN 3 in all compartments for their own convenience and if you believe this is the best choice for you, then use it. The MOCO did come out with their Formula+ so if you feel the SYN 3 is the best choice in YOUR bike, then use it! They didn't change their outlook on the oil for no reason at all.
Speaking of which the comment in the above thread brought back what Amsoil used to push as their MTL and a few other products and since changed that their 20/50 ENGINE oil will do the job in all three compartments. Common guys, get off the fence and stop trying to "Market" what you think will sell the product to those that don't know the difference by making it look simple. Different requirements require different lubricants and an engine oil will not cut it in the long run.
You wouldn't put gear lube in the engine so why would you put engine oil in the gear box?
It's your money and your bike and also your choice as what to use but I prefer what is made for the specific application for longevity and best lubrication.
Caper
Active Member
Thanks glider...when I'm not sure about something I ask questions.
And yeah, you could run Olive Oil in the primary only you'd have to deal with a (edit) off Popeye:bigsmiley20:
I never did buy the one oil for 3 holes thing. I remember before HD had their Syn oil, it was too slippery for bearings, will cause engine damage,void warranty's yadayadayada....then all of a sudden....Wham.. they have a Syn oil that's not only good for your engine, you can use it everywhere!!! (edit) is my thought...use a specific oil for the application its designed for. Kind like a street &trail bike...not very good in the dirt and not very good on the street, but you can use it on both.
I was a little surprised the guy from BelRay was straight up with me about "Marketing purposes" but appreciated his honesty.
Please read...
[notes]
A Friendly Reminder - Harley Davidson Community
[/notes]
And yeah, you could run Olive Oil in the primary only you'd have to deal with a (edit) off Popeye:bigsmiley20:
I never did buy the one oil for 3 holes thing. I remember before HD had their Syn oil, it was too slippery for bearings, will cause engine damage,void warranty's yadayadayada....then all of a sudden....Wham.. they have a Syn oil that's not only good for your engine, you can use it everywhere!!! (edit) is my thought...use a specific oil for the application its designed for. Kind like a street &trail bike...not very good in the dirt and not very good on the street, but you can use it on both.
I was a little surprised the guy from BelRay was straight up with me about "Marketing purposes" but appreciated his honesty.
Please read...
[notes]
A Friendly Reminder - Harley Davidson Community
[/notes]
Last edited by a moderator: