Another 'No Spark' Question

[TwoTallWyo]

There was a orange/white wire that switched line voltage that was tapped into, to supply to the control module. Pingle says this is the one they use also.
I am in total agreement with you. The only other idea I had was I used Velcro to attach the kill module and control module to the outside of the ignition module. Is there something inside the ignition mod that would possible be effected by the current flowing thru the two pingle modules?
PS did you get the pdf's of the wiring diagram for the bike? Just curious if I sent it correctly.
Thx
2Tall

 

[Hoople]

PS did you get the pdf's of the wiring diagram for the bike? Just curious if I sent it correctly.
Thx
2Tall

Yes I did, Tks. Unfortunately the cable which is shown that connects to "fused wire harness" is just shown as a "Cable" and not individual wires. Therefore it does not tell you much. The picture looks like it is just 1 lead but it can not be/ or does not seem to be.

I can tell you one thing for sure regarding this entire project. On your earlier bike, installing the Pingel per their instructions would be fine. But it's not the way you want to install it on the 2001 bike which has an ignition module. It would be SO much better to use the "ignition enable" pin on the ignition module (light green & gray wire on my print) and not the B+ supply voltage to the coil in order to kill the spark.

That is the Purpose of having that pin in the module to start with. To enable and disable the spark properly and safely without the possibility of damage to the module itself.
Removing power to the coil with a module like you now have on this bike is a risky thing to do. I can almost guarantee that you will have problems doing it this way. On your original bike, it would be fine but not on this model. Pingel is wrong if they say it is OK to do it this way. I would use the HD ignition disable line (pin 10 on my print) to kill the ignition and not go about it by removing B+ to the coils.

Of course you may have to invert the logic of the Pingel to do it, but so what. Current flow through the Pingle will be 10X less, it will be reliable and you will not have any damaging side effects.

To know for SURE which pin and how to do it would require your exact schematics.

 

[TwoTallWyo]

Yes I did, Tks. Unfortunately the cable which is shown that connects to "fused wire harness" is just shown as a "Cable" and not individual wires. Therefore it does not tell you much. The picture looks like it is just 1 lead but it can not be/ or does not seem to be.

I can tell you one thing for sure regarding this entire project. On your earlier bike, installing the Pingel per their instructions would be fine. But it's not the way you want to install it on the 2001 bike which has an ignition module. It would be SO much better to use the "ignition enable" pin on the ignition module (light green & gray wire on my print) and not the B+ supply voltage to the coil in order to kill the spark.

That is the Purpose of having that pin in the module to start with. To enable and disable the spark properly and safely without the possibility of damage to the module itself.
Removing power to the coil with a module like you now have on this bike is a risky thing to do. I can almost guarantee that you will have problems doing it this way. On your original bike, it would be fine but not on this model. Pingel is wrong if they say it is OK to do it this way. I would use the HD ignition disable line (pin 10 on my print) to kill the ignition and not go about it by removing B+ to the coils.

Of course you may have to invert the logic of the Pingel to do it, but so what. Current flow through the Pingle will be 10X less, it will be reliable and you will not have any damaging side effects.

To know for SURE which pin and how to do it would require your exact schematics.

I forwarded the complete Pingle Install and responses via email.
Thx

 

[Hoople]

Step 1 is to get the bike back again to where it will start without the Pingel engine kill wires connected. Then rig up the Pingel engine kill wires.

Splice the original coil white/black wire back to what it originally was. Then check Pin 10 (black connector) on the ignition module and see if B+ is on that pin when cranking. That is the ignition enable pin. I believe if that pin is Low (zero volts),, the ignition is disabled and the bike will not start. That is the pin that is used for the Security/anti theft feature. That pin does not inhibit engine cranking so a problem there would allow you to crank without starting.

 

[TwoTallWyo]

I will do that and advise.
Thanks again for the help

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Hoople,
Just tried that and there is B+ there when ignition switch is turned on and during cranking. I believe this is the same wire that goes directly to the coil and I spliced into.
2Tall

 

[Hoople]

I believe this is the same wire that goes directly to the coil and I spliced into.
2Tall

Something is not right. Pin 10 of the Black connector on the ignition module should not have a White/Black wire going to it. Does your pin 10 have a Black/white?

The white/black wire that is on your coil comes from Pin #1 (Black Connector) on the ignition module not pin 10.

Pin 10 of the Black connector on the ignition module is "Ignition Enable" which eventually goes to security module.. On my 2002 print it is Light Green/Gray (yours is different)

This is how it is on the 2002 prints I have and I am 99.5% sure it is on the prints you have. There was a page missing on the prints you sent to me. Look at the Carb version of the ignition module. The single output connector is called 8B. The mating connector for 8B was missing on the pages you sent me (or at least I could not locate it). Everything up to that point (with exception of wire colors) seemed to match my 2002 prints.

Look at the schematic of the carbureted ignition module. The TOP connector is Black & the BOTTOM is Gray. Notice that the crank sensor (trigger signal) is feed Directly into the module. Notice the Map sensor (spark advance) is feed directly into the module. Notice the coil is Directly feed into the module.

Therefore the module is almost a complete stand alone ignition system on it's very own.
As long as the module has power (pin1). And has a trigger signal,, And is "enabled",, you should have spark. If you want to rough check the crank signal with an A/C voltmeter, do so. But I can't see how that sensor could have gone south. You may want to make sure Pin 2 (Black connector) is in fact grounded because that is the return path for the system.

After checking all the above, it sure does not leave you much that can be wrong.

 

[TwoTallWyo]

Sir ‘ELECTRICAL GURU’ Hoople,
See my comments below. I will perform the items you indicated below when I get home later today and advise. I took out the CKP last nite but ran out of time to clean and reinstall.
Something is not right. You are absolutely, positively correct!!!! You have an ole school construction superintendent working with wires and electronic stuff vs. concrete and steel Pin 10 of the Black connector on the ignition module should not have a White/Black wire going to it. Does your pin 10 have a Black/white? No it appears to be the same as you stated below grn/gry

The white/black wire that is on your coil comes from Pin #1 (Black Connector) on the ignition module not pin 10. Yes it is blk/wht

Pin 10 of the Black connector on the ignition module is "Ignition Enable" which eventually goes to security module.. On my 2002 print it is Light Green/Gray (yours is different) No it is the same.

This is how it is on the 2002 prints I have and I am 99.5% sure it is on the prints you have. There was a page missing on the prints you sent to me. It is on the 2nd page right side at the top Look at the Carb version of the ignition module. The single output connector is called 8B. The mating connector for 8B was missing on the pages you sent me (or at least I could not locate it). If I understand these sckematics correctly, this connector is on the 1 page I sent, in the middle of the left sheet. Everything up to that point (with exception of wire colors) seemed to match my 2002 prints. You are correct from what I see on the drawings I have for both bikes. (Clymer’s FLH TC88 ’99-’05)

Look at the schematic of the carbureted ignition module. The TOP connector is Black & the BOTTOM is Gray. My bottom shows solid pink
Notice that the crank sensor (trigger signal) is feed Directly into the module. Notice the Map sensor (spark advance) is feed directly into the module. Notice the coil is Directly feed into the module.

Therefore the module is almost a complete stand alone ignition system on it's very own.
As long as the module has power (pin1). And has a trigger signal,, And is "enabled",, you should have spark. If you want to rough check the crank signal with an A/C voltmeter, do so. But I can't see how that sensor could have gone south. You may want to make sure Pin 2 (Black connector) is in fact grounded because that is the return path for the system.

After checking all the above, it sure does not leave you much that can be wrong.
Once again I want to thanks you for all the time and effort you have provided.
2Tall

 

[Hoople]

Well for being an ole school construction superintendent working with concrete and steel, your doing an Awesome job so far. Heck I know Nothing about Concrete & Steel so your 1 up on me in that field!

 

[Hoople]

Look at the schematic of the carbureted ignition module. The TOP connector is Black & the BOTTOM is Gray. My bottom shows solid pink

Are you sure about that. I said CONNECTOR not wire. Your bottom connector on your ignition control module is Pink? It should be Gray. The schematic you sent me shows it as Gray.

 

[TwoTallWyo]

Are you sure about that. I said CONNECTOR not wire. Your bottom connector on your ignition control module is Pink? It should be Gray. The schematic you sent me shows it as Gray.

Sir Hoople,
You must be a school teacher or professor of sort and my ole eyes are just not what they were once upon a time. Once again I stand corrected- you can be RIGHT, I am just not wrong. the bottom CONNECTOR on the module is in fact GRAY.
I did not have a chance last nite to check out all the ideas but will today
thx
2Tall