Andrews 21N on touring

Discussion in 'Harley Davidson Product Review' started by fabrozor, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. fabrozor

    fabrozor Active Member

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    Hi,

    Thinking of cam upgrade, i'm looking in the direction of Andrews 21N cams.
    I have a stage 1 already (K&N rk-3909, PowerCommander 3, kerker mufflers)

    - Did you installed the 21N ?
    - How did it change your bike behavior ?
    - If you had a PowerCommander, did you need to retune it ?
    - If you went to the dynojet center again, did it need to adjust the settings a lot or just a few ?

    Thanks for your feedback.
     
  2. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I installed the Andrews Products 21N cams when I did the roller chain conversion on my '03 UC. I also installed the TFI fueler at the same time. Previously when I did the full Stage 1 on my bike, I had the Dealership download done (when I was young and foolish!). With these changes, I do feel more "get up and go" or throttle responsiveness from a stand-still or when the RPMs are low. That is why I wanted these cams. I do not run the bike hard, but did want some improvement over stock - which I got with the 21Ns.

    Kemo and some of the other guys here went with the 26Ns so you should ask for their feedback on those cams. I do not remember if any of the guys also have the PC.

    TQ
     
  3. fabrozor

    fabrozor Active Member

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    i think the 21N will be enough for the way i ride.
    Did you notice your bike drinks much more gasoline ?
     
  4. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    When I originally installed the TFI and used the recommended settings, I did see a drop in my mpg. I have tuned the TFI back as suggested by some of the other members here on the site (like Glider) and have improved my gas mileage back to what it was originally without drastically impacting performance. The original setting were pretty rich, and I did not need it that way since I ride the bike as a commuter every day. I do not have any popping or hesitation or other symptoms of a too lean setting, so I think I am set the way I want it. Net-net, I think my mpg may be down about 1-2 mpg from what it was when I bought it. Overall. Not a sacrifice in my mind.

    TQ
     
  5. fabrozor

    fabrozor Active Member

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    thanks for your answers.

    I was asking because after i installed and tuned the powercommander in the dynojet center, my gasoline consuption was 20% more.
    (before it was 5 liters for 100 kilometers, after it was 6 liters for 100 kilometers)
    So i wonder if i will loose again some sobriety.
     
  6. TQuentin1

    TQuentin1 Well-Known Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Probably not. The Stage 1 and riching up the fuel mixture from the OEM setup required to meet US EPA requirements would impact the fuel economy more than adding the 21N or the 26N. Both these cam grinds are considered fairly mild (although a significant impact over the stock grind). You will probably NOT need to retune the PC for either of these cams any more than retuning the current setup would get you. Your riding pattern with the new and more responsive cams will impact the fuel economy far more than the cams themselves. It is just really fun to have all that iron jumping up and running down the road so well that resisting the temptation to roll-on will be your biggest challenge to fuel economy!!

    TQ
     
  7. fabrozor

    fabrozor Active Member

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    you're tempting me :D
     
  8. Chopper

    Chopper Senior Member

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    fabrozor you should talk to who ever does your tuning. When I was first trained by MMG ten years ago to custom built maps for power commanders, they trained me to tune for 13 to 1 across the board and I did hear a lot of complaints on fuel mileage going down, I have since trained in Milwaukee with engineers that design and worked in development of Buells fuel injection systems as well as some old school dyno tuners around the country. Now I build the maps mid to upper 14's to 1 at lower throttle positions were you normaly cruise, above 3,000 rpm I drop it to mid to high 13's to 1 then at WOT I take it down to 13 to 1 depending where the engine is happiest, sometimes in the 12's. The extra fuel help cool the engine and provides extra fuel for power tuning, I give my customers the best of both worlds, stock like fuel mileage with a bike that rips the white lines off the roadway. You pay the higher price for a tuner & dyno time you deserves to get what you pay for.
     
  9. fabrozor

    fabrozor Active Member

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    Due to the financial crysis, the guy who did my dynojet tuning had to close his workshop.
    Here is my map :
    [​IMG]
    I mostly ride @2500 rpm
     
  10. Chopper

    Chopper Senior Member

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    I really can't tell anything by just looking the map, but not a good sign the tuning center shut down, if they were good there should not have been a financial crysis, a course there are Xwifes, drugs and bad business management, but still, good tuning centers are far & few between. The map you have will probably work fine with the upgrades and although my old customers complained about mileage thet raved about the performance,
    Keep us posted.