ABS brake update

Discussion in 'General Harley Davidson Topic' started by Midnight Reign, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Midnight Reign

    Midnight Reign Active Member

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    ABS brakes

    So I am getting conflicting information, does anyone know for sure if you need the digital technician to bleed ABS brakes or is it just to confirm proper information after the system has been worked on ?
     
  2. BUBBIE

    BUBBIE Well-Known Member

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    Re: ABS brakes

    I know Nothing on the ABS system and don't/didn't have it on Any My bikes..

    IF I want a wheel to Lock Up,,, I WANT the wheel to lock up.:newsmile071:

    Maybe Hoople or another Knowledgable Member will be along to help here...:D

    signed....BUBBIE
     
  3. Midnight Reign

    Midnight Reign Active Member

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    Re: ABS brakes

    Anyone else ????
     
  4. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Re: ABS brakes

    Yes, you need a Digital Technician or some other way to purge the hydraulic unit (HCU) of any air. There are 4 electric solenoid valves along with the pump motor which must be actuated in order to do that. And the only safe way to do that is through serial data instructions.

    I am sure it's just a matter of time (if not already) before the aftermarket makes a black box for the Indy shops that will circumvent the special HD tool..
     
  5. Midnight Reign

    Midnight Reign Active Member

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    Re: ABS brakes

    I cant even begin to express the depth of my disapointent here. As faithful Harley enthusiast's we deal with so much crap in our loyalty to antiquated steam engine technology and are rewarded for our loyalty to the brand by getting cut off at the knees by the bean counters who figured out yet another way to extort money from thier faithful customer base. I guess there really is no such thing as corporate integrity. I' sure there will be those that try to defend the MoCo, with arguements like technology dictates this situation etc. but IMO there is no justification to produceing a system that requires a computer to bleed brakes, this is the heigth of absurdaty, I'm so upset right now I cant even remember how to spell correctly. The one thing I do know for sure is I will be researching what is required to eliminate such a ridiculous system fro my 2012 SG at the first available oppertunity.
     
  6. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Re: ABS brakes

    Without defending HD I can tell you with 100% confidence, it is worse (a whole lot worse) with Honda, Toyota, Yamaha, BMW, VW and the list goes on. The fact that HD sells the SE Super Tuner which allows you to change the mapping on a factory programmed ECM is amazing to me and tells me that they are on my side (to some degree). No other company would sell you THEIR BRANDED software and hardware to do that. I can't think of one. And in comparison to the others, pricing on parts is really not that bad.

    Almost all ABS systems have special ways to bleed them. That's nothing new. As a matter of fact, I can't think of 1 single company whose ABS system can be bled with common hand tools. Since ABS on these bikes is relatively new and just catching on, the cheap black box is not out yet.
    Trust me, it could be a lot worse.

    You know if you are only doing caliper work, you probably won't need the Digital tech. If your doing master cylinder work, you will need it.
     
  7. Jack Klarich

    Jack Klarich Expert Member

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    Re: ABS brakes

    In post 6 Hoople is right. I got tired of trying to stay updated on all the Auto manufacturers info on ABS. Sone see it as a closely guarded secret it seems. Spx-Kent Moore makes the scanners Harley uses tho I am reasonably sure we as the public cannot buy it and the cost would be HIGH, I had tried with my Matco man to get an inside on this and he was not able to deal with the public only H D Dealers. If you are doing normal pad replacement and do not have an ABS light on you should be good to go, only when you have air in the system or a fault code (READ) ABS light on flashing or brakes not working properly you will need to see your dealer Harley Davidson Community here is a good read on ABS light
     
  8. Midnight Reign

    Midnight Reign Active Member

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    So evidently I have run amok of some rule somewhere, as my follow up post to ABS brakes was deleted or never got posted.
    From a purely mechanical point of view this is what I found. I was in fact able to anually bleed the system, but this however, was no simple task. I used a Mity-Vac vacum bleeder, and put nearly a full quart of fluid through it before any pressure at all was built up in the system. As with a non ABS system once pressure started to build it increased rapidly. When all was done and road tested the front brakes functioned satisfactoraly. They did not however have the firm feel at the lever. I didnt bother to retrieve the DTC's as the bike will have to go to the stealership for the Digital Technician ABS bleed/setup. The brake lever has a slightly spongy feel to it, but at no time during the test ride did the lever collapse into the hand grip, even when leaning quite heavily on the brakes during a short stop from about 60 mph. And at no time did I get the feeling that the bike would not stop in any distance that I asked of it. With a light double pump of the brake lever, the feel at the lever was rock hard and quite comftable, and the braking feel was a bit more crisp than without the double pump of the lever. So here is my conclusion; First, I wont hesitate to do this job again, but will as a matter of course factor in a trip the the dealers for the digital bleed/setup. Secondly, I would imagine the bike could be ridden indefinately with out going to the dealers, and besides the slight spongy feel to the brake lever, the ABS is most likely not functioning as it should, but will reliably stop the bike in all conditions. After finally getting ahold of a dealer tech friend of mine he tells me that anytime a bike comes in for service they, as a matter of course perform the digital bleed/setup proceedure. So it is a bit comforting to know that if need be a brake line can be replaced and the bike made operational, so that it can go back to the dealer to finish the process. I still stand by my opinion that the owner operator of the bike should be able to complete the brake bleeding process with out having to go to the dealer, if they so choose. And I dont see why the MoCo couldnt provide us with a few button pushing sequences that would allow the end user to complete the process.
     
  9. Midnight Reign

    Midnight Reign Active Member

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    typo in 3rd sentance should have read I was able to "manually" bleed the system
     
  10. Hoople

    Hoople Account Removed

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    Great info & Thanks for the follow up reply. You 100% correct. HD could incorporate firmware that is built right into the ABS computer that would allow anyone to exercise the control valves and pump in order to bleed their own brakes. But the key word here is "anyone". You sound like you know what your doing. But there are so many people out there that don't and it would be dangerous giving them that ability at their finger-tips. Every chance they got, whether it be a engine check light, a strange braking sound or just having some brake dust on their wheels, they would be pushing those buttons like it was an I-Phone.

    Hey, why doesn't Harley include a break-out box with every 2012 bike that is sold? They really should because your not going to fix a simple electrical problem on a bike that has HD-Lan or a Body control module without one.

    But believe me,,, I am a tech and I totally understand your point. I am just looking at it from their side also.