4 bikes - 4 oils, the test begins

Discussion in 'Oil' started by Not Very PC, Jul 20, 2007.

  1. Not Very PC

    Not Very PC R.I.P

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    Here's the deal, my HD dealer has 4 2007 Police Roadkings that were ordered and never picked up.
    The Owner and I talked over with the shops race bike builder/tuner and we came up with a simple test to find out if their was a difference in Oil Brands and or weights.
    The bikes will be put into service as rental/demo bikes till each has 30,000 miles on them, at that time we will do a full tear down of , engine, primary & trans to measure wear and inspect the "inside" of each bike. { each bike will be full serviced as called for by Harley as time/miles call for}
    Bike #1 will be running HD Syn3 in all 3 holes.
    Bike #2 will be running HD non syn oil in all 3 holes, HD 360 multi-grade 20w50 in the engine, and Formula+ Transmission and Primary Chaincase Lubricant in the trans & primary.
    Bike #3 will be Mobile1 V-Twin 20w50 full syn in all 3 holes.
    Bike #4 will be running Lucas Motorcycle 20w50 full syn in the engine and primary with 75w90 full syn in the trans.
    I'll post up dates and any news as it becomes available.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  2. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    This should be an interesting test for sure.
    Here's my predictions.

    Bike #1 will need a new/rebuilt trans.

    Bike #2 will do OK as long as the oil in the trans is gear oil.(not specified)

    Bike #3 Way to go except for the 20/50 in the trans.

    Bike #4 Where and when can I buy it? :s
     
  3. Not Very PC

    Not Very PC R.I.P

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    info edited to show more detail.
    Bike #3 was going to get 75w90 Mobile full syn in the trans but Mobile Tech. recommended the 20w50 in the trans.
    I've got a date with # 4 Monday for a all day test ride. Will let you know what I think monday night.
     
  4. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    Fire that tech :D, the 20/50 is engine oil, not gear oil, he should know the difference better than anyone. It's better than the syn 3 in the trans but still falls short by a lot in application. Even Amsoil has changed their views on the 20/50 in the transmission to their gear oil (mtl):51:. Hope he had a valid reason for that suggestion, maybe to be more fair to the other bikes selections?:33:

    I still want bike #4 :s
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  5. Not Very PC

    Not Very PC R.I.P

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    Mobil tech said older 4 & 5 speed trans definitely needed the 75w90 or 90w140 full syn but that the "HD 6 speed" was designed to use 20w50 and anything heavier [ 75w90 or 90w140] would cause shifting problems in cold weather and would give no better service in hot weather. He also noted that most manual shift automotive and lite truck transmissions have used ATF for lube with no problems for many years now.
    30,000miles of test ride and rental use should tell the tell!
    average bike won't see that much use/abuse in 100,000 miles.
     
  6. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    I find that interesting that he said it was designed to use 20/50 and would be curious where he got that info/opinion from. I believe from what I have heard that the formula+ is heavier than 20/50 by a considerable margin, but all things being equal here, it's still engine oil and not gear oil and I would be concerned with the shear factor which is very low in engine oil when used in a gear box. The complexity of the gear oil and it's different rating system than motor oil brings the 75/90 to darn near 20/50 weight motor oil but without the additive packages that gear oil has to protect the gears, this is where the difference lies. As far as the ATF in the gearbox.......Not my cup of tea there. I had a dodge running ATF in a manual gearbox and after three trans rebuilds in 15K miles, I couldn't wait to get rid of it. One of the biggest mistakes I have ever made with the dodge!

    Viscosity is measured by different scales for engine oil and gear oil. The two systems aren’t directly comparable, number-for-number. Here’s a reasonably accurate comparison between the two systems as there is some overlap.

    SAE Engine Oil vs SAE Gear Oil

    10w thru mid range of 20w 75w

    Mid 20w thru mid 30w 80w

    Mid 30w thru low 40w 85w

    Low 40w thru 50w 90w

    60w up 140w

    Looking at these ranges it shows that 50w engine oil is the same “real” viscosity as 90w gear oil. So it stands to reason that they might be substituted for each other. But remember that there are other factors involved than just viscosity. The ability to withstand shear, and additives designed for a particular end use are also important.

    The shear aspect and the additive packages are why some don’t think it’s the best idea to use the 20w-50 engine oil in a transmission. There are reports of tranny damage where the 20w-50 was used but there are currently no scientific studies to prove the damage was the result of the use of those oils.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  7. Not Very PC

    Not Very PC R.I.P

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    I hear you on the ATF and the Viscosity of the oils, engine vs trans. And even though I've been using Mobile1 V-Twin 20w50 in all 3 holes in my own TC 6 speed bikes I'm going try be as unbiased as possible and post all results 100% as I find them.
    I'm after the info not to prove 1 oil is better than another.
    I just wish I had 20 bikes and 20 different oils to compare!!!!
     
  8. glider

    glider Veteran Member

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    I'll be anxious to see the results and for once, these results will be from actual testing and not otherwise which will carry some weight IMO.

    Good luck with the testing.
     
  9. Hi-Tek Rednek

    Hi-Tek Rednek Active Member

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    Would be nice to see how RedLine and AMSOIL and Royal Purple did in the same type test.But hey, it's a start. Great idea ! Way to go " Not Very PC " !!!! Be looking forward to final results. Later, Hi-Tek Rednek
     
  10. pahunter

    pahunter Active Member

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    Glider
    I have a 2004 1200R I've been toying with the idea of 75/90 in the primary. What is your opinion. I value it!!!! I have heard so many thoughts on this. Ride Safe Doug