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1989 FLTC Not Starting Intermittent Problem

@Catwoman

Yes, a new set of cable might not be a bad investment. I'm just a little shy of spending more money on repairs right now. Because ...

I truly feel for the guy with the clutch problem. The week before this whole not starting thing began I had to replace my ENTIRE clutch assembly. The bike started dragging with the clutch completely squeezed, and once moving running horribly as I shifted through the gears (high RPM no power to the wheel). I tried adjusting the clutch about a half dozen times before giving up and taking it in to the dealer. When they disassembled it they found the drum "wobbling" in the basket. It turns out a weld broke in there and the whole thing got fried. The burned oil, plates, etc. were impressive in their destruction. I brought all the parts home to use to get more familiar the clutch components.

Turns out Harley no longer stocks (or makes) the parts for the clutch in our bikes ... so I (well they) had to order the part from V-Twin Manufacturing. I got the last one they had in stock. The part itself was just over $700.00, then add in all the other little parts, and the 1.5 hours labor and there you have a $1000.00 repair bill. Now ... one week later ... this.

That's why I'm a little gun shy when it comes to buying more stuff I might not actually need.

@TQuentin1

I did check out the switch this morning. It seemed to be working correctly. I may not have tested right, but voltage was being passed, and the continuity was good. Also, the switches are actually pretty new. How new I don't know. The guy before me must have replaced them. In fact they (start and kill switch) are the newest looking plastic on any of the controls on the handlebars. Still black, with crisp white letters.

Like I mentioned to CatWoman above, I'm really hesitant to buy more parts than I need right now. If I get going down that rabbit hole, I'm afraid I'll end up buying the bike again in parts before I'm done.
 
The problem is that the white/green salt corrosion by-product (possible corrosion products included copper chloride (white) and copper chlorate (green)) are easily displaced as the switches are actuated. This results in a good contact at times, and poor at others. Exactly the symptoms you are experiencing. Any particular sampling of the switch with a meter looking for continuity may NOT confirm or reject this as the source of the problem. This has to be determined and corrected through visual inspection and cleaning of the contacts themselves.

TQ
 
Just wondering here. When you jump start the bike from the truck, where are you connecting the jumper cables to the bike? Both to the battery, or red to the battery and black to some place else on the bike? If you are putting the black on the bike, you would be bypassing the main ground cable. Could mean a poor ground.
 
@TQuentin

Yes ... I should have been more specific on that. The whole switch mechanism looked shiny and new when I had it disassembled. There was no corrosion on the inside of the switch at all that I could see. I'll check it again .. better safe than sorry.

@2000classic

Both ends to the battery on the bike. POS cable to pos. terminal, NEG cable to neg. terminal. I'm going to check and re-check that ground this morning anyways just to be sure.

...

Thanks guys. Will update a bit later after I try those few tests and check these things again.

Ok ..

Two quick things from the first two tests this morning.

1. When I shorted the two posts on the starter (post where battery cable is connected and post where wire that leads in to the starter is connected) the starter produced a higher pitch whine that sounded like it was spinning, but it DID NOT crank the engine.

I don't know exactly what this is telling me. I had thought I should have expected it to turn the engine over. Does this mean there is a problem in the solenoid?

2. Because it is comforting to me on a "it really will get better" level I went to jump start the bike just to make sure it will still run. I didn't want to admit to it last night, but I have been jump-starting the bike with the engine running. Both my truck, and my friends I had to use the other day. I know this is bad - now. Here's the thing, I tried to jump start it this morning with the truck off and the bike WOULD NOT start. It just gave me the "click" and that was it. It didn't even try. Once I started the truck up, no revving of the engine, the bike fired right up. Of course the volt gauge on the fairing barely moved up at all when the truck was off, but once I started the truck it flew up to 13-14. It seems it only starts when there is extra voltage in the lines.

Thoughts?

....

I'm going to go trace the battery cables again, and see about replacing that suspect green wire.

If neither of these do it, I might have to admit defeat.
 
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@Steve07

Down to two things? Don't tease me like that man.

I'm actually on my way to pick up some wire, and ring and slip connectors to make two new wires to replace the one that runs from the starter relay to the solenoid (it looks a little corroded and patched, and the little black wire that runs from the terminal on the starter where the positive battery cable connects to the junction box (main circuit break I believe) where it connects to the red wire that goes to the console and ignition switch. When I took it out I noticed it had a patch in it. I guess the guy before me decided to do some wiring of his own.

Since I'm heading out I'll take BOTH batteries to the local Auto Zone and ask them to load test them. Fun stuff.

I believe I have the theory of how to do a current draw on the starter, but I do not have an ammeter (VAT 40 or whatever), and my multimeter only goes to 10amps I believe. This wouldn't be sufficient would it?

Any suggestions? ... Besides a stop at Harbor Freight for an induction ammeter ;)
 
I know you said you tried using a jumper cable to replace the connection from the pos. term. to the starter. Did you do the same thing on the ground side from the neg. term. to the starter mounting bolt ground?

TQ
 
The first thing I should admit is that I don't know much about electricity and I have just fumbled along all these years.

I saw this comment about bench testing a starter and was wondering if you could do the same with the starter in the bike if you disconnected the cables. The only items in play would be the starter and battery. I guess I'm thinking about myself if I ever have a similiar problem and I am in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks
Bob

Here's the comment:
"You can get a general idea about the starter by putting jumper cables on your car battery, the black (ground) cable on the starter housing and the red (positive) cable briefly on the terminal that connects over to the solenoid. If the starter turns over, that's a good sign, but not a guarantee of no other issues with it. If it doesn't turn over, that's bad."
 
@TQuentin1

Yes, I did do that. It didn't help at the time.

@BOBFLHTC

I think they are trying to describe the same procedure I did when I "jumped" the posts on the solenoid. They are just suggesting using a battery with jumper cables instead of using the battery in the bike and using the jumper cables to short the two posts like I did. Don't hold me to that though.

I am an electrical engineer by school (but I work in IT) .. honestly I still got confused dealing with some of the stuff with the bike. I think it's like being able to wire a circuit board and wire a house. Both are electricity, but in different ways.

.....

Here's the latest.

I took the two batteries to the local Autozone for a load test. Both were fine, but one was most certainly better. One had around 200 CCA, but the other was over 500 CCA. Both were around 12 volts. Turns out the old battery was the better one. So much for "assumptions" and buying a new battery. I guess now I have a spare. I can tell you I'll be buying Harley batteries from now on though.

I also bought some 10 gauge and 12 gauge auto wire (expensive stuff if you're not being picky about shopping around), and some new connectors to make a set of new cables. I also stopped and picked up a cheaper new meter that would read to 1000 amps.

I made a new green cable (starter relay to starter), and a new small black one (starter positive post to junction box - main circuit breaker I think).

Both the old ones were "patched", and looked in bad shape. They tested fine for voltage, and continuity, but I figured what the heck.

I installed the new wires, the old battery that tested better, cleaned and tightened everything down ... and .... she started up first try.

I just about fell over.

I've since started, ran a few minutes, shut down, restarted .. repeat about two dozen times. I watched the voltage gauge, and multimeter sit around 12-13 volts when running up to 14 volts when rolling on the throttle.

I ran the bike for about 15 minutes with every conceivable light, switch or whatever on. Shut it down, let it sit for around 20 minutes, and started it back up.

It started raining here just as I was about to take it for a ride to the grocery store ... so ... I let it sit for a few hours and just five minutes ago it started up quick as can be.

I'm hesitant to say it's fixed ... I'm too paranoid for that and don't want to jinx it. Give me a few weeks of good riding and then I'll see about celebrating.

I'm planning on checking for current draw next just to make sure there isn't something putting too much of a draw on the battery while it is sitting. Better safe than sorry.

I can not thank all of you enough for your suggestions and support. I can't believe I haven't advantage of all the knowledgeable people on the forum before now. I couldn't have gotten this far without your advice.

Will update tomorrow if there's anything to add when I try to start it up for a ride weather permitting.

Now .. off to find other interesting discussions on the forum!
 
Sounds like YOU got her fixed! Feels great, doesn't it!

Now do invest in the HD Factory Service Manual. It will serve you well for your bike.

TQ
 
Glad that you got your bike sorted. The age of the bike really seemed to point to the battery, but poor conducting cables are funny in that they may look fine, but peel back the insulation a ways, hidden corrosion may be viewed. Would have thought if you had poor cables, they would have been getting warm...
 
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