02 Road King Light Load Vibration & Rattle/Grating Noise

[dbmg]

The only advice I have is that Dolt is spot on with his bearing advice. When mine failed at 24,000 miles on my 08 the noise was ever getting louder with increase vibration. On a slight grade engine off bike in neutral coasting down hill it sounded like a truck with mudder tires was following me. When dealer repaired bike I question type of bearing installed and the part number was the same as one removed. So I guess in another 20,000 plus miles if not sooner the bearing is going to fail again. The bearing surface was pitted and discolored. The dealer tried to make light of the $500.00 bill by stating that there was nothing I did to cause failure.......

 

[Jack Klarich]

Have a close look @ your oil, check for shiny brass colors, this will head you towards too much run out on the crank, My Streetbob had so much run out it cracked the oil pump and cam plate, yet it was not noisy, ran good enough to ride it to the dealer. Prior oil change is when I found the copper colored metal, I bagged it up and showed it to the tech he knew right away what it was. The dealer called HD they sent a rep to check it out, he said he had never seen 1 so bad he could not measure the run out on, the pistons looked like they were sand blasted, the cooling jets plugged solid, for 50.00 I got a new engine thanks to HD ESP

 

[Bodeen]

I would think that a bearing would have been noticed before putting her away for the winter. By the description, it sounds like this is new. Seem obvious but have you looked at the motor mounts? They have been known to sag enough to cause front exhaust to make contact.....

 

[Jack Klarich]

I would think that a bearing would have been noticed before putting her away for the winter. By the description, it sounds like this is new. Seem obvious but have you looked at the motor mounts? They have been known to sag enough to cause front exhaust to make contact.....

Good point Jeff, and too often overlooked

 

[Vincenthdfan]

So I've looked over all my engine mounts again...all look the same as they ever have, the front one is saggy, but has been that way as long as I can remember. I'm going to replace it anyway as long as I'm doing all this other maintenance.

I did look all around the motor and frame for evidence of exhaust system contact and all looked normal except one very close spot in particular.

The right side straight section that goes right beside the right lower swingarm external mount bolt....there is only about a 1/16" of clearance between the pipe and the head of that bolt.

There is no evidence of contact, no chafing marks, no dents, dimples, dings...so I am not totally convinced that is the culprit, although I will certainly find a way to attain more clearance there.

I also ordered the special tools to remove the front drive belt pulley and ordered the tapered S & S inner primary bear bearing race today as well....I like the design of that and will utilize the OEM inner primary bearing and seal in conjunction with this race.

I'm going to go ahead and replace shift shaft seal, transmission seal behind front drive pulley, quad seal...once all the parts and special tools arrive anyway.

I haven't done the runout check on the transmission main shaft yet...will shortly.

Anything else?

 

[Jeff Klarich]

Looks like you've got it pretty well covered. This may very well be a process of elimination as several things could be causing the issue.

Good luck.

 

[dolt]

So I've looked over all my engine mounts again...all look the same as they ever have, the front one is saggy, but has been that way as long as I can remember. I'm going to replace it anyway as long as I'm doing all this other maintenance.

I did look all around the motor and frame for evidence of exhaust system contact and all looked normal except one very close spot in particular.

The right side straight section that goes right beside the right lower swingarm external mount bolt....there is only about a 1/16" of clearance between the pipe and the head of that bolt.

There is no evidence of contact, no chafing marks, no dents, dimples, dings...so I am not totally convinced that is the culprit, although I will certainly find a way to attain more clearance there.

I also ordered the special tools to remove the front drive belt pulley and ordered the tapered S & S inner primary bear bearing race today as well....I like the design of that and will utilize the OEM inner primary bearing and seal in conjunction with this race.

I'm going to go ahead and replace shift shaft seal, transmission seal behind front drive pulley, quad seal...once all the parts and special tools arrive anyway.

I haven't done the runout check on the transmission main shaft yet...will shortly.

Anything else?

A compressed motor mount would not exhibit the noise/rattle, particularly exhibiting when motor running and clutch engaged but quiet when clutch not engaged; classic IPB failure symptom.

Looks like you have it covered; I assume that the "transmission seal behind the drive pulley" is the main shaft/5th gear seal (PN 12035B); might as well replace the big oil seal as well (PN12067A). You did not list the quad spacer; it is good practice to replace that spacer when replacing the quad seal.

The instructions to install the S&S bearing will tell you to stop at 35 ft/lb; however, I can tell you from experience that does not always hold true. I have busted a couple following the instructions. Now, I tighten to the point where I feel movement has stopped, measure the gap between the bearing and the main shaft/5th gear seal and if .125" or thereabouts, call it good. If you are uncertain about the install depth, wipe the IPB seal with some oil, slip it on (tape the main shaft splines) and you can see the line on the bearing where the seal lip makes contact.

Do not apply any silicone between the inner primary and the motor case. Not sure what the service manual says but a tech bulletin was issued back in the day specifically addressing that issue as the instructions may not be clear.

I doubt that your main shaft is out of service limits but checking while you have access is a good idea.......

 

[Vincenthdfan]

OK folks,
Sorry for the long delay on an update...life gets in the way of projects sometimes.

So, I got all my parts...installed the new seals, bearing and S & S inner bearing race.

Now I have a big quandary and S & S isn't a whole lotta help on the subject.

The new S & S inner primary bearing race doesn't seat as far in as recommended for the original factory race....factory states .100 to .125".

The S & S will only go to around .135" ish...maybe a smidge more gap actually. Its seated hard against the taper on the mainshaft, I've rechecked the torque numerous times, I applied assembly lube, taper toward outboard side, etc...but it will not go further on the inboard side.

This wouldn't be much concern with the original style primary seal, which was a single lip style.

However, the new seal Harley provided me, is a dual lip...one spring facing outboard toward the primary, one spring facing inboard toward forward pulley.

I test fit the primary with grease inside the seal lips, rotated a few times, removed and checked and it appears to me that only the outward facing spring seal lip is verifiably contacting the race.

I cannot be certain in any way shape or form that the inboard facing spring/lip is contacting the S & S race....it leaves a grease smudge, but certainly no distinct ring like the outboard lip.

S & S says either go to the original style seal, which I'm certain is obsolete, or just run the new style seal and hope for the best.

I'm reasonably sure that the inboard spring/seal lip is to function as a dust seal, but I figure every little bit helps and Harley upgraded that seal for a reason.

My choices are:
1) Run it as is with S & S installed and hope for best.

2) Install original Harley inner primary bearing race (which is migration prone) and set it to around .125" gap and hope it doesn't migrate over time.

My original race hadn't migrated in 65,000 miles so maybe it wouldn't be an issue? Maybe if I apply Red Loctite to the inside of a new factory original style race?

Frustrated here....

 

[Vincenthdfan]

Do not apply any silicone between the inner primary and the motor case. Not sure what the service manual says but a tech bulletin was issued back in the day specifically addressing that issue as the instructions may not be clear.
I

I'm also curious about this statement dolt....are you saying don't apply any RTV between inner primary case and inboard cases?

Is just dipping the threads of bolts with RTV the preferred method then?

I ask because my factory manual states to do both, apply Black RTV between cases and to threads of mount bolts.

 

[dolt]

I would bet that both seal lips are contacting the race. I have installed the S&S race multiple times and have never been able to close the gap between the race and the main shaft/5th gear seal to less than .125". Pretty easy to check though; measure the distanced from the ring the outboard seal lip makes to the end of the S&S race and compare that distance to the distance between the IPB seal lips. BTW, that IPB seal has the "oil" side labeled; I am sure you caught that but just checking.

If you can't get comfortable with the S&S race, pull it off and install the OEM race using some Loctite 609 but just know that it might take some heat to release it should you need to pull it off in the future.