stage 1 upgrades

ashenfang

Hey guys. New to harley, and the "stage" upgrades. Currently my bike (2008 883) is stock except for rush 2.0 slip on's. Dealer (as well as everyone else) says that no re-map is required for just the slip on's. In the spring though, I would like to get the SE intake, which would then require the stage 1 download. So my question is, is the stage 1 download the same thing as the ECM remap? part of it? Others are suggesting going with the XiED O2 sensor plug ins to richen the fuel mixture.....but getting conflicting info on whether those work with stock bikes, or with stage 1 and later......oh so confusing..

Hobbit

the ECM flash/SE upgrade is still a lean option as it still has to pass EPA/CARB and will still render the bike lean, the best think you can do is search on here for fuel managment computers.
Check out companies like dobeck performance for the TFI simple and easy to use, Vance and Hines Fuel Pak not as simple as the TFI, PCIII power Commander versatile and upgradable map based and dyno built fueler - needs dyno time to set up right.
and last but not least - SERT hd's version of the PCIII but this is unit that will completely remap the ECM and once in it can only be used on the bike it is on as it leaves a foot print on the ECM, all the other are removable.
then you get the Zippers T-max with auto tune this neither fueler or a ECM programmer it is a new auto tuning ECM and is the priciest of the lot.

Lean motors will run hot and will eventually cause damage internally

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ashenfang

thanks hobbit, you always seem to be the first to reply LOL. So let me ask this....I know all the HD upgrades are still "lean" options, so basically, sticking with the HD options will result in a shorter life span bike vs. an aftermarket option? What are you opinions on the 02 sensor plug ins? Lots of people swear by them.

Here is a link for them 2007 HD LC1 Wide Band O2 Upgrade

I have looked at the aftermarket tuners, but they are pricey and seem to have a high learning curve if you have no understanding of EFI maps.

So the "stage 1" download adjusts the fuel map as well then, so if you stuck with the stock air filter after this update you would be running "about right" then?

Hobbit

Not nessacarily a shorter life span but a bike that still is not running to the engines full potential - all makers build the motors to run at the max performance at the factory then choke them up to pass the regs required.
so your sporty would be a rip snarling beastie if the motor was not tinkered with, as it stands it is compliant for noise and emissions and although lean its not dangerously lean, could you imagine the law suits againist a company that made a product not fit for purpose?
So we as purchasers have a choice - leave it alone or play with it to return it to as close as possible to factory designs.
with free flowing exhausts, free flowing air cleaners and remapping the ECM which ever way we choose and some even take it further (like me) and add big bore conversions with wild cam profiles to squeeze every last ounce out of the motor - yes this will shorten its life

the IED's and variants have been tested on here and a great write up was done by Smitty, they work as suggested but are no replacement for a proper tune.

the ECM mappers like the SERT and PCIII (to and extent)do require skills that the average joe does not have as they require a rolling road and a skilled operator see DOC1 and Fisher to get the best out of them, they are the best way to tune the bike.

the likes of the V&H fuel pak are plug and play- you plug it in, you press 2 buttons to set the preprogrammed setting from V&H, and the job is done, this does not alter the ECM

the TFI is more or less the same but does not rely on the V&H maps you set it as per the instructions then you can alter the fuelling to suit using the 4 pots on the device and as this does not alter the ECM.


hope this helps - the V&H and TFI are for the likes of you, me and the general public who want quick simple and above all items that work and do not keep the bike off the road for hrs on end or cost $100's to tune

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ashenfang

Hobbit, very good information. It sounds like the V&H fuel pack is the way to go for the EFI noobs. In what way though is the fuel pack differ from the dealer downloads?

Like I said, right now, I just have the slip on's, and in the spring getting the SE. Would it be wise to go ahead and have the stage 1 remap done at the dealer, then get the fuel pack? I guess the main question is, do all these aftermarket fuel products like the V&H, O2 mods, ect, rely on the bike having its stage 1 download done first. Sorry for all the questions, learning lots

Hobbit

not a problem on the questions.
the TFI is a better product than the fuel pak as its multiway adjustable by the owner, but for plain simplicity the fuel pak.
if you buy a Fuel pak/TFI/PCIII you DO NOT require the dealer down load as these items take care of it all for you.

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ashenfang

I just spent the last few minutes reading up on the fuel pak. It seems to be a nice product and runs about 100 bucks more than the stage one download through the dealer. It also looks to be be "better" in the sense people say the fuel pak is better than the dealer downloads.

I just checked my combo in their map finder - they don't have the Rush pipes listed. Will this be a problem?

Hobbit

no load it up as Slip ons either V&H own or SE

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